Axons Unleashed Podcast Episode 3: “I sacked my wife from our business, then begged her back” | Axon Property Group Skip to content
Axons Unleashed Podcast Episode 3: “I sacked my wife from our business, then begged her back”

Axons Unleashed Podcast Episode 3:
“I sacked my wife from our business, then begged her back”

Axons are part of the neuro-transmission system in the brain… they carry the spark between the neurons to fire the body into action!
This podcast will get your Axons fired up by our hosts Robbie, Tamara, Dan and Dane as they uncover the untold truths of what it really takes to successfully transition from the ADF, how to build a multi-million-dollar property portfolio, how to start a business as a veteran entrepreneur and how to more effectively communicate with your partner… while optimising your personal performance in every aspect of your life.

On the third episode we tread onto delicate subject matter… When Robbie sacked Tami from her role as marketing director and then had to bed her back months later. It was a gutsy move that did NOT pay off... sacking your wife from the business is not for the faint-hearted!

Listen to Axons Unleashed:

TRANSCRIPT:

Robbie:
Hi, my name's Robbie. I'm being joined by Dan and Tamara. Welcome to the Episode Three of Axons Unleashed. Morning, Dan, Tamara. How are you doing?

Tamara:
[inaudible 00:00:07] Good morning!

Dan:
Yeah, absolutely. Here we are again. What a wonderful morning down here on the Gold Coast. It's bright and sunny outside. And I don't know, did you get to see the water this morning, mate?

Robbie:
Yes. Tamara and I have now successfully moved into our new apartment there at the Q1. So certainly living 66 levels above the ants on the ground, which is the humans walking around, is a unusual feeling so far.

Tamara:
I've been giving Dane, now a resident surfer our surf report each morning. So-

Dan:
The daily surf report?

Tamara:
That's right. Tammy's stuff surf report, coming your way.

Dan:
Don't give RT any more ideas, because that might be the next little branch that he launches down, goes, "We can create a surf channel!"

Robbie:
Unlikely.

Tamara:
And watersports are not really his thing.

Robbie:
That's right.

Dan:
As we spoke about on the previous episode that we try to keep Robbie away from the water these days. So-

Robbie:
Yeah. So let's just give everyone a quick little update. So Episode One was all about how Axon the business started, why we started this podcast and just a little intro into who we are and how we help people create wealth in their lives using property. Then, of course, Episode Two was all about Dan starting to join the business. And you got that fateful phone call from Tamara about, "Hey Robbie, smashed his leg. He's jumped off the back of the boat up in North Queensland fishing." And I was then basically in and out of hospital for the next six months-

Tamara:
In a wheelchair-

Robbie:
And Axon pretty much come to a grinding halt. So that's where we finished up the last couple of episodes. And I'll tell you what, if you haven't listened to those episodes or watched it on YouTube, ladies and gents, go back and do it now, because it'll give you a fantastic start point. And there were lots and lots of little gems, some of them not very comfortable to speak about. And we're going to cover some more off of that today as well, about how we got to this point.

Dan:
Absolutely. And I've really been looking forward to this episode, because I didn't even know the true background to exactly what it was. I just saw a title on the page and then I'm like, "What actually happened, guys? Can you tell me before we actually go and do a podcast about this?" So we obviously had to go back and explore this in the lead up, but one of the reasons why it's probably a lesser-known story is, because these days, one of the big successes that you see from Axon is we're out there everywhere from a social media presence perspective. And we often get told, "Tammy, someone is chasing me around the internet. I can't get away from Axon. I've been trapped by the algorithm." Right?

Tamara:
I love a good retargeting strategy.

Dan:
That's it. And Tammy, you was the marketing director amongst one of many, many hats you actually wear within the business. That's pretty much been led by you from the recent times. But if we take a walk down memory lane from that perspective-

Tamara:
Uh-oh (negative).

Dan:
It wasn't always this way. Right? It hasn't always been as probably most people have seen over the last 18 months, two years. So back in the old days, when the business was just getting started from the media room downstairs, you were in charge of marketing, right?

Tamara:
Yeah. So setting everything up, and I had had a fair bit of marketing experience, but I'd also mainly been a real student of marketing. I'd just involved myself in as much education in that side of things as I could. So very much self-taught. But, yeah, I was able to get my hands on things and make my way around things and get us set up and started. And, yeah.

Dan:
Yeah. And what about your RT? How did you enjoy watching Tammy fulfill that role in the very early days of the business?

Robbie:
It was really great, because she left a really successful career as a flight attendant for Qantas to come up to Brisbane and then come and join our life. You tried to get a transfer up there, but Mr. Joyce, if you're listening, you weren't doing any transfers up to Brisbane at that time. So she's like, "Right. Jam it, Qantas. I'm going to come up to Brizzy and basically start [inaudible 00:03:58] life up there." So look, probably by her own admission, Tam was a bit lost and she didn't really have a new direction and a new passion. So you'd jumped head first into learning a little about Facebook ads and Instagram stories. And this was back in 2015, 2016.

Tamara:
Yeah.

Robbie:
So, Instagram had only been around for a very short period of that time. And yeah, she dived right into it.

Dan:
Yeah, absolutely. Starting to hit your straps then. So, from there, this is, basically, where the story starts off. Right? Tammy's been relatively successful, been self-taught. She's moved from the other side of the country up here to be able to support you. And we've got this new business endeavor that she's neck deep in. What happened next? And the title of this is going to be talking about how you effectively sacked your wife from your business that you are co-founders of. But, how did that actually came to be? And I'll throw to you Tam, I suppose, to take us through the beginning of that story.

Tamara:
Sure. So we went to a business conference in the Gold Coast and there was a marketing guy. There was a couple of really key speakers up there, but one of them was a marketing and branding specialist. And we listened to his little spiel, and afterwards Robbie said to me, "I just think we need to stop playing small, and we need to get someone who's a professional at this." And essentially went storming up there and grabbed his business card and said, "Mate, we need to book an appointment."

Robbie:
I was excited. You know what I mean? Because they had a copywriter, they had a graphic artist, they had someone that could do out Facebook ads. It seemed to have years and years experience working in the industry. So it was like, you know what? If we do have visionaries of taking this business to the next level, then let's see what a proper professional marketing firm might be able to do for us.

Tamara:
Yeah. So I guess I was a little bit, I don't know. I lost a bit of confidence at the time, because I felt like, well, if Robbie doesn't believe in what I'm doing, then maybe I don't know what I'm doing. Maybe I'm not good enough for this. So that was a bit of a blow I guess. And so I just took a backseat in the business and I was doing the admin, the accounts, the small amount of HR that we have compared to what we have now. And just, yeah, taking a real backseat in the overall business.

Robbie:
And, as you'd appreciate Dan, I was completely oblivious to this. I didn't know that basically saying, "All right, honey, you're sacked from the marketing department. We're going to get this other firm to come in here and take over it all." I just thought I was doing the right thing by the business, by throwing some money at a problem and getting professionals in there that could do it all. Because we're very well aware that just because you know how to write an Instagram ad, doesn't mean you know how to write a headline or copy, or the little summary of what the particular spiel is. Or, doesn't necessarily mean you're a graphic design artist. So having all of those traits in one person is very rare to find. So, I guess, I was just attracted to the opportunity of working with a business that was going to provide that to us. Again, completely oblivious to my wife as the co-founder that what I was actually doing was sacking her from the business and-

Tamara:
Well, it was a real passion of mine at the time. I was really enthused by marketing and I loved it and I was watching everything I could, going through so many webinars and trainings and getting stuck into the Facebook ad side of things, which actually changes all the bloody time. So yeah, just it was a pretty big shock. But yeah, I just ... Okay. It is what it is. So, yeah, just started being in the background and trying to work out what things I was going to start doing. But then, it wasn't too long before we realized that they weren't really getting results for us.

Robbie:
That's a really nice way of putting it.

Dan:
Well, we didn't give the disclaimer that this is an MA15 plus podcast-

Robbie:
I must warn you [crosstalk 00:08:10] ... four of four or five minutes of ladies and gents. You've probably got your teenagers, daughters, listening to this-

Dan:
Well, it's a bit deeper than normal. Normally we're jovial and upbeat, but we're obviously talking about a relatively sensitive topic, where you've turned around and sacked your wife from the business that you started three months earlier, which arguably, it's going to touch some raw nerves from that perspective. So there's some sensitivities about it, but Tammy, how did you feel then? Because as you just alluded to then, a few months down the track, we're progressing forward and, if I remember this correctly, it was almost like all hands went off. It was like, these guys are the expert. They've got their copywriter, they've got every single person that we need in the team. They should now be driving this forward, from both a strategy and an execution.

Tamara:
Absolutely. And I think that was something, looking back now, that's a huge lesson for us. We would never let someone take over the strategy fully of our business. We will definitely have our finger on the pulse and give our own direction, because we know our clients better than they do. We do. And at the end of the day, they had a great long-term strategy. So that we're really focusing on blogs, on SEO, on.

Dan:
That search engine optimization for everybody out there.

Robbie:
Lead magnet to get an email address. You can send a follow-up email and nurture them along the sequence. I'm like, we spoke about it Tam, "We need results now, dude. When I talk to people now. I haven't got 12 months up my sleeve, as someone that see the 50th email they've read and go, "Oh fuck! There you go. Fuck, let's now contact these guys.""

Dan:
So, I suppose from that perspective, what you're talking about RT is that, because you'd started the business, let's call it on a shoe-string budget, you got moved along relatively quickly. Follow that in Episode One. But then a few months later, they're like, "Let's implement a strategy that's going to take 12 months or two years until you actually start seeing results."

Robbie:
Yeah.

Tamara:
Yeah. We were getting, I think, six or seven people onto one of their webinars that they were doing. And we were spending quite a bit of money, that we didn't really have at that time just to, yeah, to get no results. And so, Robbie said to me, "Can you just have a look at what's going on?" And I ended up jumping into the back end of our Facebook and I realized that they had been setting up all of our accounts and ads and collateral app images, everything, in their own account. And that means we didn't own anything that we had just been paying for. For months.

Dan:
So it's effectively the same as like them owning all of your intellectual property?

Tamara:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Robbie:
From a marketing sense, yeah.

Tamara:
Yeah. So-

Dan:
How did that make you feel when you found that out?

Tamara:
Oh, my God! I-

Robbie:
It [inaudible 00:11:05] a red flag, straight away.

Tamara:
Straight away. And I said to them, 'We need all this transferred. We need this back. This needs to be in our account." And they said, "Yeah, we can do that." And the more I looked into it, the more I realized you can't do that. Once it's in their account, you can share it, but you didn't own it. So to me, that was a huge red flag-

Robbie:
Or if we were going to switch it across, effectively, Facebook takes it all the way back to the start. So any likes, any engagement, any scollateral or brand equity that you build in some of the messaging that you pay money for, just gets wiped all the way back to zero. And we're literally back to square one. So-

Tamara:
Yeah. Anyone with their own business and getting outside help, then I would definitely recommend that they use your own account. That all your ads, everything, all the audiences that they're creating, that re-targeting, it's all in your own account. So that was a huge lesson as well. That, yeah, you own all of your own stuff that you're paying for.

Robbie:
A point to note, just here as well, is that very different what we're doing now, we had two segments of the market we were talking to. We were talking to mum-and-dad investors or non-Defense members. And, of course, we were talking to Defense members as well, talking about your idea of housing entitlements. So it wasn't clear cut. There was a very multifaceted approach. I used to call it the whole, "Grab a whole lot of mud, throw it at the wall and hope some of it sticks," which is a very poor marketing methodology to undertake. But that's effectively what they were doing for us.

Tamara:
Yeah.

Robbie:
So, yeah.

Tamara:
So was it about then you asked me to come back?

Robbie:
I think when we got to the point where we got six or seven people attending one of our webinars, one of the things we also realized is that understandably ... And look, I spent 11 years as a SOCOMD Officer with protected identity status, with no social media accounts. I always had a dummy email, 1234@hotmail.com and the phone number was fucking 000 999, whatever it was. So you never actually leave your details. And understandably, a lot of Defense members are like that.

Tamara:
Yeah. So when they were filling in the details for a webinar, then we'd get all of that. We'd get the fake emails.

Robbie:
Yeah, we'd see it all. We're like, "Oh, okay. So we've had 20 people register, but then there's three people online. But we can't even send an email with the new link for the people that, because it's all a fake account." And, of course, I jacked up a little bit. I'm like, "I don't care about getting people's emails." And I remember having a bit of a standup tiff with yourself Tamara, and also the other marketing guy at the other firm. They're like, "Marketing's all about getting their email address, and we must focus on the email address." I'm like, "I don't give a fuck about the email address. I want eyeballs on the screen." And you'd certainly joined us by this time.

Dan:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Robbie:
You were watching all this go by.

Dan:
I regularly remember the four people attending the webinars, as we were using them. And then hiding behind that barrier where we really controlled the environment. And yeah, it was like, you'd sit there for hours in the preparation for this, creating all of the content that you know you need to pass on to people. And anyone who's watched our Facebook Live in the last two years ... There wasn't a drastic amount of different information in the webinar versus the Facebook Live. And so you all know exactly how valuable that information is. Right? So it was a little bit disheartening with the amount of work that went into the preparation and delivery of that, to know that it wasn't being received by anyone. And from a business standpoint, you guys would appreciate more than most that if you don't have any clients coming in the door, you don't have any income. And if you don't have an income, there's no business.

Robbie:
Well, as I say, yeah, the world can only run on love and pixie dust so much. And cash is ultimately the oxygen for any business.

Tamara:
Yeah. Cash doesn't need to be your driving force, but it actually, that's what makes the wheels spin. That's what makes the wheels turn and you get some momentum. You need that cash to fund your marketing, to fund your staff, to fund the business. So-

Robbie:
So I think it was maybe late 2017-ish, is when that sort of data breach with Facebook and Cambridge Analytica came along. And that's a bit of a red flag, mate for me. I'm like, "All right. Now this has just made the problem even worse." [crosstalk 00:15:22]

Tamara:
I'd actually been saying to the boys to start doing Facebook Lives [crosstalk 00:15:28] when you're out on the road-

Dan:
Let's talk about that quickly. We'll come back to that data breach in a minute. Not our data breach, by the way [crosstalk 00:15:33]

Robbie:
... was like, this was almost like a perfect storm, that this all happened sort of concurrently within a couple of weeks of each other. So it's very relevant. Let's cover off Tam, where we're talking about the whole idea of the Facebook Live, because-

Tamara:
Yeah. So, Facebook Live had just come out and I was seeing my own results with that. And just, yeah, I knew we had to be on it. We had to be on it. That's where the algorithm was pushing all the viewers. So I said, "Right, jump on when you're out at site. Jump on a Facebook Live." And I'd be sitting at home on the Facebook, waiting for them to go live. I'm messaging, "When are you going live? I want be on and see it."

Robbie:
You guys can't see the video right now, but Dan and I are wincing in the background going, "Oh, we were so scared. We were shitting ourselves."

Tamara:
[crosstalk 00:16:21] "Oh, God." "Oh, I'm not ready." "The lighting wasn't that great." "We weren't prepared."

Robbie:
"Too windy." Excuse, excuse-

Tamara:
"I hadn't done my hair." [crosstalk 00:16:30]

Dan:
... background. That wasn't me, by the way. My individual hair that I have left. Was not me being too worried about that-

Robbie:
A little bit like we discussed on Episode One, where I was so shit in front of camera. And I was literally reading off a bloody teleprompter, compared to now where we just poke a camera in our face-

Tamara:
Well, I did poke a camera in your face that first time. So, we were on the way home from a lunch with one of our builders. And we'd had a couple of beverages-

Robbie:
A couple of beverages-

Dan:
I think there was a Maxi Taxi involved-

Robbie:
There was-

Tamara:
Yeah. So we're in the back with [Simo 00:17:03], and I said, "Right, I'm going to show you how this Live works. I'm going to show you what a Facebook Live is." And I jumped on my own page, my own profile, and went live. And we just absolutely flapped off for about five minutes.

Robbie:
But I was just amazed that everyone was on there, "Hey, guys." People were commenting. We were then interacting with people, literally, live. That's why it's called Live. But on the spot. I'm like, "This is actually fucking really cool. And then I swore for the first time. I'm like, "Whoops! Are you allowed to swear on a Facebook Live?"

Tamara:
We only recently watched it back again. It was quite funny. But yeah, you were like, "Oh, my God!". And then within half an hour we had about 300 views or something. And I said, "There you go. Have a look at that. That was just us talking about absolutely nothing to my own friends-

Robbie:
And then all of a sudden we've got 10 times the amount of people that have ever even seen some of the stuff that we'd paid a lot of money for people to get there. So that was a bit of a penny drop moment for us. We're like, "All right. We should give this a go."

Tamara:
You should listen to your wife.

Dan:
Once in a while, you should listen [crosstalk 00:18:09]

Robbie:
And that's why this episode is called, "I Sacked My Wife From The Business, But Then Begged Her Back." So it was just like a bit of a ... As you said before, Dan, a bit of a perfect storm about, this happened and then the data breach via Facebook happened. I'm like, "Right. Fuck it. I don't care about the blogs. I don't care about the lead magnet. I don't care about the email address. Let's fucking get rid of this other crew. Honey, can you please come back to the business and run all our marketing for us? I'm sorry. I didn't realize that I was sacked you from the business." I'm now giving you a proper apology in front of the whole world-

Dan:
Ladies and gents-

Tamara:
This is probably more of an apology now than what I ever got.

Dan:
I was about to say, I think this is the first time he actually apologized for this.

Robbie:
The 'S' word is not my strongest suit. So yeah, it was a terrible thing. And I promised everyone at the end of Episode Two. I'm like, "Make sure you listen to this one, because I stuffed it up again." And nearly made it all [crosstalk 00:19:02]

Tamara:
Well, at the time, when you did ask me back, that my confidence was still that low, that I was like, "I didn't even know if I can do this anymore. I haven't really had my finger on the pulse for the last few months." Things change in marketing so fast. So I was just so worried that I'd forgotten everything. And so I said, "All right, I'll come back just for three months and yeah, get it back on track."

Robbie:
So then we did our first Facebook Live. And, I guess, I remember Dan that because we didn't have a full studio set up, we bought our own set of lights. [inaudible 00:19:34] the same time, "Let's get a big TV screen, let's put a PowerPoint presentation out there. Let's stand in front of it." I saw someone else, it might've been on a webinar jam, "How to video." I'm like, "Fuck, I can see some American guy bloody standing in front of a big screen. Why don't we do that?" So that's literally-

Tamara:
I think the iPhone was held up on a stack of boxes, too.

Robbie:
Yeah it was. I was just about to say. And then Dan as a mechanical engineer, went, "Right. How can we now configure it somewhere where we can get these going?" But we needed the slides behind us, because we still weren't super smart about-

Dan:
But we also wanted the slides in front of us. So what we ended up having was the dining room table. And we had a coffee machine, the old coffee machine at that office. The box is still in the house. So we put the box on top of the table. And then on top of that, I had-

Tamara:
It was a foam Hello Fresh, or one of those-

Dan:
Yeah, another box on top of it. And then I mounted my Thunderbolt monitor. So, these monitors cost $800 or $1000 a hit, on top of these two unstable boxes, so we could get the right angle of the camera and also be able to read the slides in front of us, as well as having them behind us. So that really could have gone downhill, really fast. But, fortunately, no one wobbled the table in exactly the wrong way at that point in time.

Robbie:
It was such a little backyard operation set up now, compared to the proper, full-on studio set up that we have, even the one we're sitting in here now, coming to you live and uninterrupted from White Horse Studios here on the Gold Coast. Run by a Navy veteran as well, which is bloody awesome. Yeah. So we've really come a long way, but it is good to reflect. And for those that have only been following us for a little while, we're like, "Wow! Look at the proper setup and studio and everything they've got. This is a bloody, really professional organization." Damn straight it is, but it didn't start like that.

Robbie:
So we started doing Facebook Lives and we were like, "Right. That's it. We're not doing webinars anymore. Let's not collect anyone's bloody email address, because no one's going to give it to us anyway. And let's now start doing Facebook Lives." And that was one of the things that really started to solidify our place in the market, because no one else that you and I knew Dan, were doing Facebook Lives in the property space. Sure as shit, no one in that Defense property space was doing Facebook Lives either.

Dan:
No. Well, the Defense Force was terrified of Facebook.

Robbie:
Yes. True.

Dan:
To a degree. There's still some pretty significant social media policies out there for the Defense Force as well, which is currently in the media, which is lots of fun. [crosstalk 00:21:55] But, at the end of the day, when you take that ... It's another leap of faith almost. You're like, "Let's just have a crack at this and see what happens."

Robbie:
Yeah. But we're still talking to mum-and-dad investors or non-Defense clients. And then we're obviously doing our Defense stuff. So, in the meantime ... Or have you got it on the little thing?

Dan:
No [crosstalk 00:22:12] Yeah. So, we were still talking to both audiences, but I think what we decided what we're going to do is, by the end of this year, we're just going to have a real red, hot crack at this. And we brought Tama's back in and Tammy said, "We're going to do this. And then we're going to see what the results end up being from that perspective."

Dan:
But, how were you feeling in the lead up to doing that first Facebook Live, Tammy? Because you've gone from being in control, to having to take your hands completely off the reins, to being begged back and now having the weight of the world lumped onto you, to be like, "Here's this thing that you've been ... " "This is the horse that you've been backing for months-

Tamara:
Don't talk about backing horses.

Robbie:
She's got it good, eh?

Tamara:
Yeah, basically, it was a lot of pressure, because I'd been pushing this Facebook Live thing for a while. And just, yeah, I wanted it to work. I had to make it work. But, yeah, the confidence was at an all-time low. So it actually took ... Probably about six weeks in, I looked at all the data and I'm very data driven, very analytics driven, anyway. So, it got to the point where I looked at the data and I was like, "I've just performed better than this previous company has in the six months that they were with us. Six weeks, I've managed to turn it all around, including how many page views, likes, just a full range of stuff that we were working on. [crosstalk 00:23:51] Engagements. We were converting better. We were talking to the better ... more of our proper audience and the people that connect with us. And so, yeah, I guess, what do we say? Yeah. Competence equals confidence.

Robbie:
Mm (affirmative). Yes.

Dan:
[crosstalk 00:24:08] Obviously you knew what you were doing. But then, you saw the actual results, which probably returned your confidence to you.

Tamara:
It did. So, yeah, that was a good moment for me at the time, because I was like, "Okay, I've got this. I'm okay. I'm going to be okay. I'm going to save the business."

Dan:
How were you feeling RT? Because that's got to be a proud husband moment, where you ate a little bit of humble pie, and we saw that a second ago. But how were you actually feeling on the inside when you saw Tammy starting to deliver these awesome results?

Robbie:
Well, it was a bit bittersweet to be fair, because now she was back in the business, we were back into living together, working together, sleeping together, eating together, going out together. Every thing was basically part of our life there. So now, that had its own challenges from that perspective. But, yeah, immensely proud. Yeah, of course it was. It's fantastic. I couldn't imagine doing it any other way now. Even though 99.9% of people I speak to ... I'm like, "How would it make you feel if you had to do all that stuff with your husband or wife?" They're like, "No fucking way!" And even in a proper, loving relationship. So, it has its challenges, but it's bloody satisfying as well.

Robbie:
But I was just about to go into the next thing. One thing that she was pushing you and I to both do, Dan, was content, more videos. Now, as you guys discovered during Episode Two, I'd already smashed my leg by this stage, and I was in a wheelchair and a moon boot, and I was like ... So you weren't in front of the camera at this stage-

Tamara:
Dan's laughing now.

Dan:
[crosstalk 00:25:39]I remember filming content with Robbie with his busted-up leg, when he was just getting back on his feet-

Robbie:
Just-

Dan:
And he'd get back up-

Tamara:
Foot. Back on his foot.

Dan:
Yeah. Well, back up on his foot. [crosstalk 00:25:49] He would stand up on one foot, beside that big TV that we spoke about before. He would record a 30-second snippet of video and collapse in pain shortly afterwards.

Robbie:
It was fucking horrendous.

Dan:
And he'd sit down on the seat and it'd probably take him two or three minutes to rekindle his flame there, as well. So-

Robbie:
Because I had the big moon boot on, I had to have it ... I was standing on a phone book on one leg, because otherwise I would have been on the tilt. So yeah, there was a lot of resilience and grit and determination that we had to show, because tomorrow's like, "Right. We're now starting to get an audience. I need fresh videos. I need fresh content. Get it all done, boys." So, sure enough, we set up the [povo00:26:25] cameras and we shout, "Set up the stands and get the coffee machine box out again." It was so shit back then.

Robbie:
And again, Dan, you did such a fantastic job in making sure [crosstalk 00:26:33] because I couldn't do it, mate. I was in a wheelchair. That wasn't humble pie. That was fucking humble pavlova. I want to contribute as much as I can. I couldn't say "pie" again. I wanted to contribute as much as I could, but I was fucking stuck in a wheelchair. And I was like-

Tamara:
It just goes to show that, people probably think of us now, that we've got it so easy. We're aligned with our clients. We've got leads coming in. We've got a great following. We've got some amazing fans. But it was not always the case. We started from absolutely nothing.

Dan:
Twice.

Tamara:
Yeah.

Dan:
Because you had to start again after we lost the info [crosstalk 00:27:21]

Tamara:
We've had that many hurdles. Like, yeah, the amount of things that we've gone through, especially in our startup phase, I just think if anyone is starting a business out there, they need to know that kind of stuff that it's not smooth sailing. You have to go through the ups and downs when you're starting a business.

Robbie:
[inaudible 00:27:40].

Dan:
Yeah. And I suppose even though it seems really obvious in hindsight, right, one of the key lessons that we spoke about today is not putting blind faith in someone else to be able to go and achieve what would be your strategy and what's in your brain from that perspective. How has that influenced, as we've gone forward as an organization, I suppose some of the decisions or the thoughts that you have, Tammy? And then RT, I'll come back to you.

Tamara:
Well, I think the first thing is that we know our audience better than anyone else. So, especially if it's a non-ADF company, or a partner that we're working with, we know our clients better than ... So we knew that they don't like sharing their data with us. Right? So we were the ones saying to the marketing company, "We don't need their email addresses. They're not giving it to us anyway. They're protecting their own identity. So let's work around what our target market needs." So, yes, I just definitely think knowing your customer, knowing your avatar inside out. We knew them better than anyone could, even the professionals or so-called professionals. Yeah. Know your customer and believe in that.

Dan:
Yep. What about you, RT? What was some of the key takeaways of what you're never going to do again? Or lessons learned, I suppose?

Robbie:
Yeah. It's a bit of a no-brainer that putting blind faith in people is not the right thing to do. And chucking money at a problem doesn't solve it either. You still need to be able to engage. You need to be able to direct. You need to be able to provide that vision and accountability for any service provider that comes into your life. And it's certainly something that we've introduced with our clients as well, that we've now got a really decent flow, because the cumulative effect of the last 30-odd minutes of us talking about how we got to this point, was meant that we're now starting to get some traction. And we're now starting to talking to a few people. And the transition from the messaging and the attraction about why would someone would want to come and talk to a bunch of veterans about using property to secure their financial future ...

Robbie:
You and I now started having multiple conversations with clients. But, of course, we all of a sudden needed to start putting in a bit of a filtering mechanism as well. So, I guess, that was the next problem we faced was like, "Sweet! All this awesome work that Tammy's now done for us is starting to work." And all the videos we're watching and all that shitty little jokes we were telling on Facebook Lives, et cetera, were starting to have an effect on people. Now, we certainly didn't have too many people were coming in the door, but we needed to put a filtering mechanism in place.

Tamara:
Well, people were going straight from our online training, our webinars, and then subsequently the Facebook Lives, straight to a coaching session. They were able to book, yeah, straight into your calendar for a couple of hours and, well, a fair amount of the time people weren't ready.

Robbie:
Yeah.

Dan:
Yeah. So, obviously, this entered then the Discovery Session. So there's probably a few of you listening right now that's like, "I never had a Discovery Session. Did I miss out on this?" But from that perspective, if you're still one of our clients, now you didn't really need a Discovery Session. But the idea was to make sure that people were actually ready and committed. And I suppose the number one thing that we have as the rule is completely motivated to actually go and do something for that perspective.

Robbie:
Yeah.

Tamara:
Yeah. Just being deliberate and not desperate as well. Just making sure that these people were a fit for us, that we were a fit for them as well. We were never chasing a sale. We were never chasing the next client, just because. It was always because we wanted and needed to help them. And they needed our help. If we can't help them, if say, they wanted to get into flipping old houses, that's not our business model, and we're not going to push people into our method if that's what they wanted to do.

Robbie:
Yeah, because we started to get some real traction about people seeing us on Facebook Live ... Dan, I remember you and I were like, "Let's not just do the Discovery Session by phone. Let's do it via FaceTime." So we got to speak to people who face-to-face, literally straight away. And that's now followed us for the last couple of years and it's made a massive difference to be able to have-

Tamara:
We've even converted Deb.

Robbie:
Yeah, that's right. There's so much communication that goes on between people that's not non-verbal. So we've got to cover off on that straight away.

Dan:
Yeah. Absolutely. And that's, I suppose, where we end up today as we've implemented the Discovery Session, from that perspective. And there's a few more things that need to go under the bridge before we get to the Axon of the current iteration that everyone can see and feel now. Tammy, I suppose the biggest lessons learned, that you think Robbie probably missed there, was probably don't go ahead and turf your wife out the business. Right?

Tamara:
Well, He didn't do it with the malice that it comes out to be. It was definitely, he thought that it was the best thing for the business. And, like you said, having this one-stop shop with copywriters and graphic designers and ... I can totally understand that. But yeah, putting our blind faith and trusting someone else with our clients was just ... Yeah, we should have still kept the reins on.

Dan:
Yeah, absolutely. From a long-term perspective, always acting in the best interest of Axon and its clients from that, and its community from that perspective was always going to be at the forefront of our mind. But, I suppose, even though today's session had a real marketing theme behind it as well, and there was a lot of technical terms that you were speaking about there, Tammy-

Tamara:
I hope not too many. Sorry.

Dan:
No, I think it came through well. But, I suppose, it also starts to talk now about Tammy more as the entrepreneur, who's got her own lane that she's been working in and starting to really specialize herself, from a women-in-business perspective as well. So it's starting to enlighten us as to where we've been coming from, and where we're heading to from that point in time as well.

Robbie:
Yeah. All right. As we wrap up this one here, it's been a sensational little episode. Thank you Tammy, for sharing your details with us. But the problems don't stop there. As we transition into now Episode Four, we still had two different segments of the market. We still weren't ultimately talking to those people, as Tammy you just said, that we're the very best fit for us. So make sure you stay tuned and listen in to Episode Four, because we go even deeper into how we got to a point where we're now only just speaking to our perfect clients. See you then. Bye.

Tamara:
Bye.

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