Axons Unleashed S2 E4:The Importance of A Good Solicitor. Tip: Don't Do it Yourself!

Welcome to Season 2 of Axons Unleashed!

How does someone else turning down “too much work” turn into a career-defining opportunity? 

Meet Shea Low, a senior member of the Property Law Department at Ramsden Law and she single-handedly serves all of Axon’s clients with full legal support. She is never one to shy away from a challenge and she absolutely loves being the sole point of contact for our clients. Once again at Axon, we found someone with the right mindset to not only join the wider Axon family but improve it with her skill set and work ethic.

 
 
 
 
 
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Episode Transcription:

Speaker: Axons Unleashed.

 

Robbie Turner: Hey, morning everyone. My name’s Robbie. I’ve got Tamara here with me, Dan, We’ve got a very special guest joining us here for the latest edition of Axons Unleashed.

 

Robbie Turner: Hello, how is everyone?

 

Shea Low: Good morning.

 

Tamara Turner: Morning.

 

Dan Irwin: Hey, everybody, and it’s good that today we’re actually trialing a new little concept, where we’ve got the whole podcast studio’s come to us in our office at Axon headquarters.

 

Tamara Turner: We have.

 

Dan Irwin: So I feel really, really special that the team has done that for us as well.

 

Shea Low: Yeah.

 

Robbie Turner: Yeah. So if you guys been following us on YouTube, actually watching this as opposed to just listening to it while you’re driving your car, ironing your clothes … That’s funny-

 

Tamara Turner: Driving your car? No, we don’t encourage that.

 

Robbie Turner: [crosstalk 00:00:48] to listening it when you’re driving your car. You can certainly listen to a podcast while you’re driving your car. I listen to a podcast whilst I iron my clothes. I’m a fucking weirdo, aren’t I, Tamara?

 

Tamara Turner: Yes.

 

Robbie Turner: “Hey, babe, I’m just going to go and do some ironing.” I said it to you the other day, you went, “What?”

 

Dan Irwin: I was about to ask, what era are you living in that you iron your clothes? Do you still iron your jeans by the way?

 

Robbie Turner: If they don’t come out of the dryer properly. They got to be done probably like [inaudible 00:01:10]-

 

Tamara Turner: I’m not allowed to iron, I don’t do a good enough job. So that’s fine by me.

 

Dan Irwin: That’s the old Sergeant Turner coming out there, isn’t it.

 

Tamara Turner: Yep.

 

Dan Irwin: It’s like, “Make sure the creases are in the right spot.” Not too bad.

 

Robbie Turner: Hey, so we got a-

 

Tamara Turner: Yes. Yeah, well it used to be worse.

 

Robbie Turner: Awesome special guest that [inaudible 00:01:23] joining us this morning. Last episode, we had the amazing Deb, the mortgage broker, come and join us. So as we’ve sort of expanded Axon key advisors and the key stakeholders to come and join us on the podcast. This morning we’re going to take it another step higher, lower, deeper, vaster, better, whichever way you want to put it, but we’re going to talk about all things legal, soliciting, conveyancing, we’ve got the wonderful Shea from Ramsden Law that’s joined us.

 

Tamara Turner: Woo-hoo. Good morning.

 

Robbie Turner: Morning. How are you?

 

Shea Low: Good, thank you.

 

Robbie Turner: Good, good. You a little bit nervous, aren’t you buddy?

 

Shea Low:

Very, [crosstalk 00:01:50] never done podcast before-

 

Robbie Turner: That’s all right. But you’ve listened to all the other ones, and you can see they’re super easy-going, nice and conversationalist-

 

Shea Low: Yep

 

Robbie Turner: We, pretty much, fucking do whatever we want, and guess what? You’re here now. So, yeah-

 

Tamara Turner: We did encourage her and say we’d put vodka in her water, but we haven’t.

 

Robbie Turner:

Yeah, for the record-

 

Dan Irwin:

But then you decided nine o’clock in the morning is not the right time to be drinking vodka.

 

Shea Low:

And I still have to go back to work.

 

Robbie Turner:

Exactly right.

 

Dan Irwin:

Not on a Tuesday. 09:00 AM-

 

Robbie Turner:

other days of the week may or may not be right.

 

Dan Irwin:

Absolutely.

 

Robbie Turner:

Hey, so let’s sort of keep the script a little bit, because there’s so many things we want to unpack. So I guess, from my perspective, how did Ramsden Law come into Axon’s wheelhouse?

 

Robbie Turner:

We’ve got this thing, ladies and gents, called the Elite Property Experience. That is you get to work with the very best partners and associates and teams, and to make sure, I guess as, Dan, you and I say, when someone gets to the success package section of our coaching, if you’re not having the elite property investing experience, if you’re not getting absolute VVIP experience from everyone that you speak to, solicitor, mortgage broker, accountant, builders, property manager, everybody, you fucking ring me and I’ll put my size 12 in their ass and I’ll sort it out for you. That’s a little promise I give them, pretty much word for word.

 

Tamara Turner:

Well it does come down to our reputation is on the line for, and it’s coming down to something that’s out of our control, to some extent, because these are external suppliers and external people that we’re aligned with, and if they’re not putting our clients first, if they’re not giving them that great experience, that comes back to us.

 

Robbie Turner:

So we were being reasonably well-serviced by another conveyancing firm. No names, no [inaudible 00:03:30], but it sort of got to a point, and this is the very ruthless nature as far as this goes, right? We’ve got to uphold … Like I come from an elite background, I know what the term elite means after spending 11 years as a Special Forces officer.

 

Robbie Turner:

We got notified by one of their, by the other solicitor firm … Sorry. The client rang us, “Hey, we settled on our land 11 days ago, we’re just wondering, when’s the next meeting so we can actually be introduced to the build support team to go ahead and build the house?” I was like, fucking 11 days ago? What do you mean settled? Ring, ring, ring, ring, “Hi, hey, it’s Axon here, you know Johnno? He just settled on his land 11 days ago …” Old Johnno always gets the wrap doesn’t he?

 

Tamara Turner:

Yeah.

 

Dan Irwin:

Poor Johnno.

 

Robbie Turner:

“Johnno just settled on his land 11 days ago, how come we haven’t been notified yet?” “Oh, oh, uh, uh, let me just check our files.” And they went back and check. “Yeah, sorry, we forgot to send you the notification.” There’s fucking steam coming out of my ears, because this is the lovely clients, Dan, in Sydney that you and I be working with for many years-

 

Dan Irwin:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Absolutely.

 

Robbie Turner:

Who went through so much emotional, personal family bloody turmoil to even get to that position in the first place. I was embarrassed. I was shocked, I was disappointed. I was like, “We’re fucking sacking these mob, right here, right now, on the spot.”

 

Tamara Turner:

That just goes to show the really high expectations that you have. I mean, 11 days is 11 days, and really, is that going to put a huge dampener on someone’s experience? Probably not. But is it the best thing for our clients? Are they experiencing the very best situation, their very best experience? That’s what you’re more concerned about. If you let that slip, then what else is slipping?

 

Robbie Turner:

Yeah, totally.

 

Dan Irwin:

They’d been around since Axon’s inception. They were part of the team that formed together at the initial stages. But I mean, that must have been relatively … Well, as you said, there was steam coming out of your ears, you’re also a relatively loyal kind of guy as well. So that would have been a bit of a challenge for you, to be like, “Okay, do I uphold my brand promise of this Elite Property Experience, or do I remain loyal to those people who have already been like a huge supporter for us?” Tell me about how that went through your mind?

 

Robbie Turner:

Oh mate, it was … So you’re right, I’m a, I like how you put it, a relatively loyal guy. You and I [crosstalk 00:05:41] around for a while.

 

Tamara Turner:

Don’t look at me like.

 

Robbie Turner:

You’re absolutely right.

 

Robbie Turner:

Look, it’s one of those things. That it wasn’t the very first thing that that firm had done which hasn’t sort of made me go home and bloody pop a bloody bottle of champagne. As the saying goes, “Give someone a second chance, but don’t give them the third.” And I guess [inaudible 00:06:03] was just at my point I’m like, “All right, this is three strikes, and you’re out.”

 

Robbie Turner:

So yeah, loyalty goes out the window reasonably quickly once you’re sort of at that point whereby, all right, this firm and this person, and this event, and these people in your life are just not contributing to the highest level anymore. Sorry, but you’re out of here.

 

Tamara Turner:

I think it also comes down to accountability, as well. So when people make mistakes, and we say this, even in our business, if you make a mistake, just fricking come forward with it.

 

Robbie Turner:

Just own it.

 

Tamara Turner:

Own it, yeah. Rather than us find out about it and come after, like them, then yeah.

 

Robbie Turner:

We better move on, because I’m just looking over at Shea, and she’s like, “Fucking when … How many mistakes have I made so far?”

 

Shea Low:

No. I remember when you told me about that. I was like, “Oh no, better not forget to copy Robbie in. Better not forget to copy Robbie in.”

 

Dan Irwin:

I mean, it’s one of those things that … We’ll talk about, I suppose, RT, how it actually came to be that we have this now relationship with Ramsden. But from that perspective, we were completely transparent when we came to Ramsden. We said, “This is what we’ve received. This is what we loved. This is what we didn’t love.”

 

Tamara Turner:

This is our expectation and our process.

 

Dan Irwin:

Absolutely. We didn’t hide behind any of that stuff, and when we’re coming forward with our absolute transparent expectations of what’s going to go forward, sometimes that can be pretty confronting to people who are already bedded in their own processes. And we’re like, “No, no. This is our process that our clients expect to follow.”

 

Robbie Turner:

Yeah, and we certainly, we’ll come to you, Shea, shortly, I’m really keen on your sharing with our listeners and watchers about what your first impressions were of us, probably being reinforced right now.

 

Robbie Turner:

We pride ourselves. We’re a bunch of veterans, we’ve got a very no-bullshit approach, we’re extremely passionate about the way we help our clients, and we do it in a very different way to everyone else in the whole industry, bar none. Fact, not opinion. So I guess it’s just one of those things.

 

Robbie Turner:

Luckily, the amazing Justin, who runs an awesome insurance firm, his brother, he’s in the Special Forces community, and we just went and had a bit of a general catch up with him about some professional indemnity insurances and ongoing protection at Axon as it grows. And he’s like, “Hey mate, how’s things going?” I’m like, “I just fucking sacked the solicitor firm because this, this, and this happened.” He goes, “Oh, one of my best mates, John Ramsden, he owns a large multi award winning solicitor firm here. They do family law, they do criminal law, they do tax law, they certainly do property law as well. Why don’t you go and have a chat with them? I’m like, “Oh, definitely seen the ads on TV, I’ve driven past the corporate center a bundle. I’ve seen their sign.”

 

Tamara Turner:

I think we’ve also, some of our other network in the property industry here in Gold Coast, which we are quite a part of, there was a few bits and pieces we’d heard the name before.

 

Robbie Turner:

Yeah, certainly. So I was like, “Oh, mate, I’d be grateful of the opportunity if we can sort of link up.” So yeah, I know Justin sent a text message.

 

Robbie Turner:

For those that don’t know, all business meetings occur at this place in the Gold Coast called Edgewater, it’s in Isle of Capri. [crosstalk 00:08:59] So we went and had lunch at Edgewater-

 

Tamara Turner:

Amazing [inaudible 00:09:02] martinis.

 

Dan Irwin:

You don’t want to be there after 12 o’clock on a Friday afternoon, because there’s less business getting done and more socializing.

 

Robbie Turner:

Well, that’s-

 

Tamara Turner:

Plenty of cocktails.

 

Robbie Turner:

That is the business.

 

Dan Irwin:

One and the same.

 

Robbie Turner:

So we went and had a bit of a chat there, and John’s a managing partner of a [inaudible 00:09:18] solicitor firm, and I’m rocked up there in my board shorts and my polo shirt on, which is what we wear every day. That’s all right, he relates to his clients and we relate to ours.

 

Robbie Turner:

But yeah, look, we got on we got on well. I mean, I said, “Look, this is, here we are, this is what we’re doing.” He knew the other person that I had that little blip in the radar with before, and whilst he’s disappointed to hear that, he goes, “You know? That’s just one of those things, I suppose.”

 

Robbie Turner:

I guess the next step there was, Dan, we had then organize that the key people from Axon went and met the key people from Ramsden Law. I suppose, Shea, that’s when we first came to your sort of big boardroom there, lots of beautiful pastries and a lovely morning tea was put on for us, an amazing view in the bundle corporate center there, looking back towards the Gold Coast.

 

Robbie Turner:

We had about 15 or 20 slides in, just, typical military fashion. “Here’s our org chart. Here’s our business model. Here’s who in the zoo. This is how it all sort of works.”

 

Tamara Turner:

We gave them a presentation.

 

Robbie Turner:

Yeah.

 

Shea Low:

I remember, there’s a lot of charts and arrows. Step one, step two, step three.

 

Robbie Turner:

Yeah.

 

Dan Irwin:

Yeah. This is the process, follow the bouncing ball. This is how we do it.

 

Tamara Turner:

What was your initial thoughts when you saw that presentation, and you saw all those slides, all of that, I guess, process?

 

Shea Low:

I thought, “There’s a lot of process and procedures that needs to follow.” Before meeting Axon, I was just doing the backend part of things. For example, when the contracts are really unconditional, I’ll be the one organizing settlements, yelling at the banks, “Why you’re not ready?” But this is when I’m like, “Okay, there’s so many process.” And someone mentioned, “Oh, this sounds painful.” And I’m like, “You know what? I’ll do it.”

 

Robbie Turner:

Nice.

 

Shea Low:

So I can run from beginning to the end.

 

Tamara Turner:

Stepping up. You were kind of in the background, I guess, back then?

 

Shea Low:

Yep.

 

Tamara Turner:

You weren’t really a main driver of things back then. But that was your sort of chance to step up and say, “I’m going to take on the Axon clients.”

 

Shea Low:

Two years ago.

 

Dan Irwin:

Yeah.

 

Shea Low:

About two years-

 

Tamara Turner:

Nice.

 

Dan Irwin:

14th of Feb 2019. So, what are we now?

 

Tamara Turner:

Oh, Valentine’s Day. That was so romantic.

 

Dan Irwin:

Yes, yeah. I knew that date rung a bell for some reason.

 

Shea Low:

The love story began.

 

Dan Irwin:

Yeah. I was gonna say, I believe our wives really, really impressed them, but like, “It’s Valentine’s Day, you know what we’re going to do? Let’s go and eat pastries and have a lovely morning tea with some of the solicitors.”

 

Tamara Turner:

It’s just hilarious that you’re like, “Oh, back in the 14th of February. Yes. That’s when we met our solicitors.” Nothing to do with Valentine’s Day.

 

Robbie Turner:

From my perspective, I was impressed that there wasn’t just a couple of conveyancing clerks that were taking care of the paperwork, there was a whole property division.

 

Robbie Turner:

So I guess, maybe, Shea, can you just give us a quick little sort of down and dirty about how does the whole property division run at Ramsden?

 

Shea Low:

At our meeting, David Nematalla, who is our property partner, he was there. Belinda, she is a special counsel. We also had Cheryle Middleton, who was the conveyancer, and myself, from memory.

 

Robbie Turner:

Yep.

 

Shea Low:

And I remember there was also only four of you.

 

Robbie Turner:

Yep.

 

Tamara Turner:

Yeah. We were-

 

Shea Low:

Robbie, Tamara, Dan, and-

 

Robbie Turner:

And Dave, it would have been. Yep.

 

Shea Low:

Dave, yeah.

 

Robbie Turner:

Axon was quite small back then as well.

 

Shea Low:

Yeah. I think only four of us attended to the meeting, and after the meeting, I said, “I’ll do this.”

 

Tamara Turner:

Yep.

 

Robbie Turner:

Was there something that you saw or heard, or you just had a bit of a gut feel, like, “You know what? I’ll give these bloody [inaudible 00:12:35] boof-head veterans a go.” As we always refer to ourselves.

 

Tamara Turner:

I was there too, you know? Hey, boof-head [crosstalk 00:12:40].

 

Robbie Turner:

I know. I know, I know.

 

Dan Irwin:

You get lovingly put in as a boof-head veteran nowadays, you got no choice.

 

Shea Low:

Well, because I heard someone mention that, “Oh, this sounds painful. Not really keen to do it.” I’m like, “Well, I’ll do it then. Who else gonna do it if you don’t, not keen to do it?”

 

Robbie Turner:

Yep.

 

Shea Low:

I remember when I first started with all the Axon files, Dave will be the one giving me a call every few days, “Shea, you didn’t do this.”

 

Robbie Turner:

Yeah. Dave is commonly known as our process monkey. Then I’ll say that with a lot of love, because he knows exactly what, like for step-by-step-by-step.

 

Shea Low:

The boys get pulled up if their diagrams on their property packs are off by, I think it’s point one millimeter, no, one millimeter or something. It’s crazy. He’s very particular.

 

Robbie Turner:

Within point. Anyway, if you want to talk about something painful, that’s fucking painful. Doing a property pack with Dave, because he’s so into it all.

 

Tamara Turner:

We love you, Dave.

 

Shea Low:

Whenever I see Dave’s calling, I’m like, “Oh, what did I do now?” Now Dave don’t even have to call me anymore.

 

Robbie Turner:

Yeah.

 

Tamara Turner:

You got this.

 

Shea Low:

And anything at all, be like, “Hmm, someone’s skipping a step here.”

 

Robbie Turner:

Yeah, yeah.

 

Tamara Turner:

You give it back to us, “You guys haven’t followed your own procedure here.”

 

Robbie Turner:

But you know what? To be fair, I think we would have even mentioned it during that first session. we have acknowledged, from a military team dynamics perspective, you’ve got your form, groups of people coming together. You’ve got your storm phase, where people like working out and grinding the gears, and doing these sort of ebbs and flows. Form, storm, and then everything starts to then just normalize a little bit, it’s called the norm. And then you get to the point where you perform. Form, storm, norm, perform.

 

Robbie Turner:

So definitely those people that have got at least Junior NCO training and above, from a military perspective, will know exactly what I’m talking about. We went through the whole thing.

 

Robbie Turner:

Again, once we’ve got the right people working in the team together, as they say, teamwork’s not just a group of people that work together, teamwork’s a group of people that trust each other. And were quickly able to form that bond and that trust, from my perspective anyway. You were doing what you needed to do. We were finding you clients, and then educating and coaching them along them way. Then we just did that form, storm, norm, perform back end stuff.

 

Robbie Turner:

We really got to that point where we started to hit our [inaudible 00:14:50] really, didn’t we?

 

Tamara Turner:

Yeah.

 

Dan Irwin:

Yeah, awesome. Let’s, I suppose, deep dive, because you’re here as a special guest, Shea. Can you actually tell us, for those listeners out there that haven’t gone through the process, what is a conveyancing solicitor and why is it actually important to have a conveyancing solicitor on your side when you’re going through either the acquisition or disposal of a property?

 

Shea Low:

Well a conveyancing solicitor is a person that you’re trusting to guide you through your obligations under the contract, and also, at the same time, to make sure that the seller is performing their obligation as well. And if everything goes well, the end result will be the title’s going to get transferred into your name, which is the settlement day.

 

Shea Low:

It’s really important because I’m quoting Syam, the amazing, my amazing supervisor.

 

Tamara Turner:

We love Syam.

 

Robbie Turner:

Syam, he’s a great bloke. Great bloke.

 

Tamara Turner:

Or Dan would say, Sy-am.

 

Robbie Turner:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He does. He does [inaudible 00:15:50]. Because his name is spelt S-Y-A-M, Sy-am. I’m like, “No, dickhead, it’s Syam.” He’s like, “[crosstalk 00:15:54] not how it’s fucking spelled.”

 

Shea Low:

Yes.

 

Tamara Turner:

Jane was arguing with me at the pub, and then he showed up and I’m like, “You can ask him yourself.”

 

Shea Low:

So, quoting Syam, he always tell the client over the phone, “Look, you’re not buying a secondhand car here, you are buying a valuable asset.” For most people, it cost a lot of money, probably their most expensive purchase they will ever make, and if anything goes wrong, or any stuff-ups at all, not only there is a chance that you might lose the property, you might lose your deposit. Also-

 

Tamara Turner:

There’s definitely a lot more at stake than buying a car, or even like, a pair of shoes.

 

Shea Low:

Yeah.

 

Robbie Turner:

Handbag, whatever. All the expensive things.

 

Tamara Turner:

Yeah.

 

Shea Low:

And not just that, as well, if it goes down to that track as well, potentially could be left [inaudible 00:16:52] for the seller to sue to you to [inaudible 00:16:53].

 

Dan Irwin:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). So [crosstalk 00:16:54] damage is coming that way as well.

 

Shea Low:

Yeah, the risks are higher.

 

Dan Irwin:

Yeah, it’s one of those things that people do. They go out there and they’ll go either one of two ways. They’ll be like, “Oh, I can get like the conveyancing pack from this post office and go and try and do this myself.” Or they go ahead and they try and find the cheapest conveyancing solicitor out there.

 

Tamara Turner:

I didn’t even know that was a thing. Is that really a thing?

 

Shea Low:

So we always tell the client, when we get foreign inquiries, the first thing they ask is about prices. And when they hear about our prices, they’ll, “Ugh, but the other party is a lot cheaper.” We usually tell them, “Hey, what you pay is what you get. Our service is like, say, Qantas, and theirs, probably, you’re paying for like Tiger Airways or Jetstar.”

 

Dan Irwin:

And Tiger Airways, and then when you turn up to the gate and you’re like, “Oh, you would like to put a bag on?”

 

Shea Low:

[inaudible 00:17:44].

 

Dan Irwin:

Putting a bag into-

 

Tamara Turner:

“Do you want a seatbelt? Oh.”

 

Shea Low:

Yeah.

 

Dan Irwin:

Yeah. Exactly, it’s like, “Do you want me to send this next email?” And it’s like, “Yes, I want you to send me the email.” It’s like, “No worries, here’s the invoice for $50, and [inaudible 00:17:54], oh, you need to change the settlement date? That’s gonna be another $400 guys.” All of a sudden, those numbers really start adding up.

 

Dan Irwin:

I’m not saying you can’t use that business model. It’s about going in with your eyes wide open, that there are multiple business models that solicitors use, obviously.

 

Tamara Turner:

Also, as we were saying, this is a huge, risky situation, that if you don’t get it right, then the consequences are huge compared-

 

Robbie Turner:

The stakes are higher.

 

Tamara Turner:

The stakes are higher, so why would you risk? I don’t know. We talked to Deb about having an investment specialist, mortgage broker, someone that’s really targeted for this kind of situation. Would you say that there’s difference conveyances as well, and different experience levels?

 

Tamara Turner:

Like if there’s different situations happening in the purchase of a property, then some people having more experience, or using relationships, and that kind of thing, is more beneficial?

 

Shea Low:

Yeah, most definitely. For example, just as a basic, even have a good broker to begin with. It change the whole different circumstances, because you might have a broker that might say, “Hey, you got finance approved,” but they don’t let you know that there’s actually a re-finance on the background. So while we actually confirm finance on-

 

Robbie Turner:

On the purchase.

 

Shea Low:

On the purchase, we’re ready to settle, say, in two weeks time, and when we follow up, “Hey, what’s happening?” They like, “Oh, we still haven’t managed to book in for the re-finance yet.”

 

Shea Low:

So if we were to know all this beforehand, before we confirm, we can actually estimate how long of an extension do we need for settlement and ask for it upfront. Saying that “We’re going to ask for settlement date to be this date [inaudible 00:19:49].” And then our client will be happy to confirm finance on that basis, if you agree.

 

Tamara Turner:

Yeah.

 

Robbie Turner:

Yeah. It’s really, really important. So it’s your job, from a contractual perspective, to make sure that all the personal particulars of the seller and the buyer have the obligations, as you spoke about before. But generally, when we’re talking about buying a property, it’s about protecting the client, and then sinking the finance. Because unless someone’s buying a property with cash, which is very, very rare these days, certainly has happened before, and no doubt will happen again, but very, very rare, they’re gonna need financing in some way, shape, or form.

 

Robbie Turner:

For you to be able to be aware of the financing, and the timelines around that, and then the synchronicity of making sure that it all works. Because as soon as you go unconditional, certainly explaining, [inaudible 00:20:32] explain exactly what that means surely, and then you can’t settle within a stipulated timeline in the contract, then you start paying bloody late penalty fees.

 

Robbie Turner:

So there are second, third, fourth order effects, from a consequential perspective, that you need to have everything wired tight before you step over that line and go unconditional, and the communication with an awesome mortgage broker is absolutely key.

 

Robbie Turner:

So of course, as you said, Tammy, in the last episode we had Debbie come and join us from a mortgage broking and financial sort of perspective. Just give us a bit of an idea about what your relationship is with her. We know she’s a she’s a great chick, but I’m talking about from a professional standpoint. How often do you guys communicate, and how well informed do you feel about our client circumstances?

 

Shea Low:

I deal with that Deb almost daily basis, except for weekends of course.

 

Robbie Turner:

And even then sometimes.

 

Tamara Turner:

Yeah.

 

Shea Low:

Sometimes, yes. After hours as well. Hey, Deb.

 

Robbie Turner:

“Quick question.”

 

Shea Low:

Quick question, one question.

 

Shea Low:

She’s amazing, because even when she has finance approve, she’ll give you a heads up, “Okay, this client, it’s not going to be around,” and just FYI, say, “This client, he’s based in New South Wales, and the wife is based in, say, WA, and we need to somehow coordinate for the mortgage documents all signed together, and from there as well.” It gives me a better idea where I stand before I even confirm finance.

 

Shea Low:

That will also let me know, okay this is how much their finance application amount is. This is how much LMI, and from there I don’t even need to wait for the bank to tell me what’s the funds available at settlement, and speed up the process, because a lot of time other matters, that I don’t deal with Deb, I have to wait for the bank to tell me how much is available before I can go back to the client and go, “This is how much we need for settlement.”

 

Robbie Turner:

For shortfall. Yep.

 

Shea Low:

Yeah.

 

Tamara Turner:

A lot of our business is about that. About being pro-active and about doing things … What’s the word? I’m trying to think? Doing things at the same time.

 

Robbie Turner:

Concurrent activity.

 

Tamara Turner:

Concurrent activity.

 

Robbie Turner:

One of my favorites, babe.

 

Tamara Turner:

That’s right.

 

Robbie Turner:

I love it.

 

Tamara Turner:

I was thinking multi-tasking, but I was like, that’s not a word that you would use. Concurrent activity. But our whole business, you know? What else can we be doing to speed up the process further on down the track? And how can we make sure that this process goes so smoothly? Because we all are sharing all that vital information to make sure the next person is already aware of what the next step is going to be?

 

Robbie Turner:

Yep.

 

Dan Irwin:

Absolutely. Shea, you’ve been speaking very diligently, and I suppose, very much we’ve been talking about very technical aspects as well. About talking about settlement timeframes and how you actually manage that. You didn’t learn that out of school, so there’s obviously been some learning going on. How did, I suppose, you go from Shea of 10, 15 years ago, whenever it was you finished school, to where you are now?

 

Dan Irwin:

Can you just sort of take us on an adventure of how you came to be Shea, the top gun. The top gun Axon supporter.

 

Tamara Turner:

The story of Shea.

 

Shea Low:

So I study at Bond. I studied business initially, major in marketing, but after graduation it was just a bit too broad, I don’t know what to do. So then my parents summon me back home and just, “Come for holiday.”

 

Robbie Turner:

Back to Malaysia?

 

Shea Low:

Back to Malaysia. “Come back home for a bit,” and my dad put me to a law firm to do like a work experience there. It was one of his friend that owned a law firm, and when he interviewed me the first thing he asked me was, “By any chance, you might consider doing law in the future?” I’m like, “Sorry, not my cup of tea. No offense, but it’s just really not my cup of tea.”

 

Shea Low:

So I was actually working in the conveyancing division when I was there. Nine months later, I said, “Yeah, I decided that I want to go back to Australia, and I’m just going to pursue law.” He said, “What happened to not being your cup of tea?” I’m like, “Well, some things can change.”

 

Tamara Turner:

“You convinced me.”

 

Shea Low:

Yes.

 

Robbie Turner:

Of course, there’s many facets to law as well.

 

Shea Low:

Yeah.

 

Robbie Turner:

[crosstalk 00:24:44] sort of said before, criminal law, family law, tax law, property law, you name it.

 

Shea Low:

Yeah. So then I completed my law degree, at Bond again. At least, when I graduate, I can’t then say I don’t know what I’m going to do it. It’s like one straight pathway, you just be a lawyer.

 

Shea Low:

I did start out doing migration law, and then I thought, “What if I’m sick of that area one day and I have no other area of law to fall into?” So I started learning property law, and that’s how I started doing conveyancing.

 

Tamara Turner:

You worked for a couple of different law firms, and then, I believe, you were on holidays-

 

Shea Low:

Yes.

 

Tamara Turner:

And decided, “I need a change.”

 

Robbie Turner:

How many holidays do you go on?

 

Shea Low:

I used to go on a lot of holidays before Axon days. Now I’m just like-

 

Tamara Turner:

Now we keep you busy.

 

Shea Low:

Yes. So when I was at my old firm, I went on a holiday to Japan. When I was in Japan, I think, I guess when you go to work every day, you don’t realize, you just, everything’s already paid and [inaudible 00:25:48].

 

Dan Irwin:

You’re just in the grind of it.

 

Shea Low:

[crosstalk 00:25:49] yeah. When you have time to reflect-

 

Dan Irwin:

In the groove.

 

Shea Low:

To reflect how you feel about the old firm, I was like, “I’m not really happy being there.” So when I was in Japan, I actually started putting resumes together and start sending when I was in Japan, because I’m like, “I don’t want to come back-

 

Dan Irwin:

That’s a good way to spend your holidays, right?

 

Shea Low:

Yeah. I was like, “I don’t want to go back to that firm when I go back,” you know? Coming back from Japan.

 

Shea Low:

So, yeah, from there I had three interviews on the go. I had my first interview on the same day, right before having an interview with Ramsden Lawyers. Immediately, they offered me a position-

 

Tamara Turner:

Because they could spot a gun from a mile away, clearly.

 

Shea Low:

I remember doing the interview with John, and I was just so scared. Oh, god.

 

Robbie Turner:

He’s a pretty imposing guy, isn’t he?

 

Shea Low:

Yeah.

 

Robbie Turner:

He’s got a very strong-

 

Dan Irwin:

He’s got a presence. Yeah.

 

Robbie Turner:

Strong presence-

 

Shea Low:

Yes, and every now and then he will laugh about how, at Christmas party I go, “Mister Ramsden, I would like to thank you for offering me this job.” Every now and then he will drop that on me.

 

Robbie Turner:

Dane used to call me Mister Turner-

 

Shea Low:

Yes, I heard on the last episode.

 

Robbie Turner:

It’s all right, it’s everyone’s rite of passage. When are you going to start calling me Mister Turner?

 

Dan Irwin:

I’m never going to call you Mister Turner.

 

Robbie Turner:

Good answer.

 

Shea Low:

Yeah. So they offered me a job and then I remember that they actually started introducing me to the property team right after my interview as well.

 

Tamara Turner:

Wow.

 

Shea Low:

Yeah, and I decided to go ahead with Ramsden Lawyers and I canceled my third interview that was meant to happen two days later.

 

Dan Irwin:

Why is it? Like, what-

 

Tamara Turner:

[crosstalk 00:27:29] was paved.

 

Dan Irwin:

Yeah. What was it about that interview you had with Ramsden? Like what did it provide to you and why did you then choose Ramsden out of those three options that you [inaudible 00:27:39] had?

 

Shea Low:

It gave me a really positive vibe, and it wasn’t a temporary position, or anything like that, to cover someone on maternity leave. Partly, also, because I know that Syam was from Malaysia. I’m like, “Maybe he’ll look after me.” And guess what? He is looking after me.

 

Tamara Turner:

Yes.

 

Shea Low:

I always tell Syam, “We’re like Batman and Robin. You’re the Batman, I’m the Robin.”

 

Tamara Turner:

Yeah.

 

Robbie Turner:

Nothing wrong with being a Robin.

 

Tamara Turner:

Yeah, yeah.

 

Shea Low:

Anything goes a bit more complicated, I’m like-

 

Robbie Turner:

Give me a little [inaudible 00:28:16]-

 

Shea Low:

I’m like, “Syam, need your help.” So he’ll step in.

 

Tamara Turner:

That’s really lovely, that you have that sort of big brother kind of figure in there, that he’s very supportive of you. I know he speaks very highly of you, as does John, and the team. Very high praises.

 

Robbie Turner:

How much does your life change when you know that your workplace that you go and spend, you exchange your time for your employer’s money, if it’s bad, your whole life is a fucking chaos. But when your workplace is good, and you’re wanted, and respected, and loved, and you get rewarded, and you feel challenged, and you’re living your best life, your whole life is completely different.

 

Shea Low:

Exactly. At my old firm, I only work there for one-and-a-half years and I’m like, “How did I work there for one-and-a-half years?” It felt so long. I’ve already been at Ramsden for, almost, now, coming in another two months or so, three-and-a-half years. It just went-

 

Robbie Turner:

And it’s gone so quickly. Yeah.

 

Shea Low:

Went so quickly.

 

Tamara Turner:

We have a lot of the team say that as well, don’t we? They’re like, “Oh yeah, it’s already … It feels like I’ve been here …” I know Dane said that, he was like, “Feels like I’ve been here for like 20 years.”

 

Robbie Turner:

He feels like he’s part of the furniture because he’s been kept on the go since he arrived at Axon. I think that’s one other things, being kept busy and motivated and driven, I suppose that’s what I’ll probably witness with you at Ramsden. You’ve kind of gone from strength to strength to strength, and that’s just while you’ve been looking after Axon stuff as well.

 

Tamara Turner:

Talking about looking after Axon, go back to that holiday. So, holiday framework. I remember very early on you went on holidays to the Whitsundays.

 

Shea Low:

My carefree days.

 

Tamara Turner:

And you actually got out your laptop while you’re on a sailing boat in the middle of the Whitsundays?

 

Dan Irwin:

I’m on a boat.

 

Shea Low:

Yes, it was actually-

 

Tamara Turner:

Because you’re so dedicated. But that just really shows your character, I think. Like [inaudible 00:30:19] you really wanted to make sure that we were looked after, that we had the best experience from you, and you’ve never let us down in that. I think that’s such a huge show of your character, that even on a boat in the Whitsundays-

 

Shea Low:

Yes, and I remember there was hardly any reception. So whenever there is a reception, I got an email, but I can’t reply to it. I’m like, “Oh, my God.” I just can’t go back to Whitsundays. Not unless Axon’s having their holiday in Hawaii again, and then maybe I can have my holiday at Whitsundays when there’s no reception.

 

Dan Irwin:

Ah, potentially. You get to keep on working, it’s fine. But that was one of the things. I think that was the real penny drop moment for you though, wasn’t it Shea? Where you’re like, “Hang on, I really am in control of this thing.” Like, “The buck stops with me.” And you took on that real ownership at that point.

 

Shea Low:

Because I was pretty much out of coverage at that point. Because Axon has so many process, and not everyone knows the process top of your [inaudible 00:31:19] head, it’s all safe [inaudible 00:31:20] here.

 

Tamara Turner:

Not like you.

 

Shea Low:

Not like me. There was an intern at that time, where she made a very big mistake, and I didn’t even realize until when I came back and start going through my files, catch up with work. I was like, “Hang on, what just happened on this file?” I realized that, “Oh, okay. I cannot leave Axon’s file to another paralegal, or someone.” Maybe I can pass it to Syam, but not someone-

Dan Irwin: Maybe I can trust my supervisor to help me out.

Shea Low: Maybe. But it is still my baby. It is still my baby, so until today, yes, I wouldn’t let anyone touch this file. Not unless they’re just doing something very basic. Do the searches or something. But from the whole process, I still can’t really let it go.

Robbie Turner: Well it’s, I love it, mate, because it’s ownership.

Tamara Turner: Yep.

Robbie Turner: You know, because when someone in that first meeting said, “Oh, this is going to be painful.” And then you put your hand up and went, “Oh, I’ll have a crack.” And now you’ve actually been able to experience what working with a group of individuals that has our background and culture and processes and systems and standards in place. Now you love it.

Tamara Turner: And we keep you busy.

Shea Low: Yes

Robbie Turner: Yes

Shea Low: Especially doing the COVID time, if it wasn’t for Axon, I think I’ll be just sitting there doing archiving, doing admin work.

Tamara Turner: Really?

Shea Low: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Robbie Turner: Yeah, because the whole, a lot of the property industry-

Shea Low: A lot.

Robbie Turner: Came to a massive, grinding halt. Not us. As you said during the last session there, about while it was a no brainer for us to hire seven people in a six month period, you guys have all listened to that podcast, if you haven’t, go back to, I think, episode six of season one. We accelerated through COVID, which means that we had to bring more people on board, but certainly that means you became busier and busier and busier as well, to the point where, overnight, we got an amazing email from the wonderful Shawn, up in Townsville, who’s now bought his second property with us, built the property through COVID. He just got handed over to the property manager and it’s now going to go on the market for way more from a rental perspective, and it’s probably going up by 100 grand.

Robbie Turner: He personally reflected back, he’s like, “I remember those key decisions that we made during COVID. It was a bit tumultuous at the time, but we did it anyway, and hey, presto.” So, I guess when you do have that courage, Tammy, as you quite rightly pointed out during the last podcast, that fortune favors the bold and all that stuff.

Robbie Turner: So, yeah, it was good. We’re all glad that you’re on board and you’re being gainfully employed as well.

Dan Irwin: Yeah.

Shea Low: Thank you.

Dan Irwin: So where have we gone from there? I suppose, you had said that you’ve handled everything from Axon, pretty much, exclusively. So, from last count, that’s like over-

Shea Low: From the very first. I think it’s about 225 files.

Dan Irwin: Around about 220-

Shea Low: Around.

Robbie Turner: Approximately.

Dan Irwin: It was 224, yes. [crosstalk 00:33:56]. So 225 files, and obviously your efforts have also been recognized inside Ramsden as well?

Shea Low: Most definitely. I have actually been promoted to become an associate around July, August last year.

Dan Irwin: That’s pretty awesome.

Shea Low: I remember when John gave me the little heads up. I was like, “What? My hands shaking, John.” Before when it’s actually all official he give me a little hint. And I was like, “No, John. Can’t believe it.”

Dan Irwin: Yeah. Good on you.

Tamara Turner: We’ve personally shared back with the team, some of the amazing feedback we’ve got from our surveys and things that we put out to our clients. I know that we’ve had some amazing feedback, and I’ve absolutely loved being able to share that with John and the team, just sharing how much our clients really love you, and you’re making a difference in their lives.

Tamara Turner: The trust and, just, the reliability. They’ve always felt that they’ve been supported, and yeah, it’s really, really lovely that we were able to share with John and with the team how much our clients really love what you do-

Robbie Turner: What do he do with that feedback? Do you remember?

Tamara Turner: I do. Do you know?

Shea Low: Yeah. I was actually having a bad day, and I was like, “[inaudible 00:35:14].”

Robbie Turner: You don’t [inaudible 00:35:15] have one, per month?

Shea Low: I can’t tell.

Robbie Turner: Okay.

Shea Low: But Tammy sent through that email and, to be honest, I was actually tearing. I’m like, “This is why I’m doing my job.” There are some clients that actually … Well, actually, pretty much all the Axon clients appreciate what I do-

Robbie Turner: Course they do.

Shea Low: Which definitely lift me up.

Robbie Turner: Yeah, I was gonna say, “Which one doesn’t? Would you tell us which one doesn’t?”

Tamara Turner: You tell us.

Robbie Turner: And then he’ll be sacked. He or she.

Shea Low: No. So I remember that day, I was having a rough day and Tamara’s email came through, and I was just like, “[inaudible 00:35:47].” Then I started tearing at my desk.

Robbie Turner: I heard a bit of a rumor, then some of that feedback was given around the rest of the office, and something like, “Just be like Shea. If everyone can be like Shea, then …”

Shea Low: Oh. [crosstalk 00:35:59] no, that was actually the shout out from the Wednesday [crosstalk 00:36:05].

Robbie Turner: Oh, the little [crosstalk 00:36:05] live Q&A. Yep.

Shea Low: John didn’t know about it, and I think it was a, at least, good three, four weeks later, somehow, the office manager … Well, office manager found out about it and asked me for the link. So I just thought, “Yeah, I’ll share with you.” And she obviously showed John, and John sent an all-user email through the firm.

Robbie Turner: How many people in Ramsden, in total?

Shea Low: I can’t tell you. Many.

Robbie Turner: A lot. A lot. Yeah.

Dan Irwin: You’ve run out of fingers to count.

Shea Low: I’m always just in my little office just working away, so I don’t really, I don’t really count.

Tamara Turner: Yeah.

Robbie Turner: Yep.

Shea Low: And John sent a really long email, specifically to whichever time of that video. And I remember that lunch break, I was like, “Oh, let me just stay in here, and I’ll just grab water.” Because, not that I was embarrassed, but I was just shy.

Robbie Turner: No, it’s amazing [inaudible 00:37:03]. The managing partner’s now going, “Hey, listen to this 45 second bit of feedback from one of-

Tamara Turner: Biggest client.

Robbie Turner: The biggest client, Axon, and the whole rest of the defence community.” And we were just telling it how it is, like we always do, and he just happened to get wind of it and he wanted the whole rest of crew to go, “Just be like Shea.”

Tamara Turner: “Just be like Shea.”

Shea Low: Just be like Shea. [inaudible 00:37:24]? Be like Shea. Hard work? Be like Shea.

Tamara Turner: I love that. I love, it does make you feel good when you get good feedback, and good support, and good recognition, and I’m all for that in our business.

Tamara Turner: I know that we send these surveys to clients, and sometimes it can be a bit of a pain in the ass to fill in a survey, but that feedback goes a long way. So if any of our clients are listening, and you got a survey that you haven’t filled out, we’d love your responses, because it does … Good and bad. I’m all for the constructive feedback as well, but that’s what makes us better, you know?

Robbie Turner: Absolutely. Feedback’s the breakfast of champions.

Robbie Turner: We obviously know that our clients love you, Shea. Why do you love our clients then? What is it about our clients that you like?

Shea Low: Axon clients come to us with significant level of knowledge. and it makes a whole communication a lot easier and more fluent, because they understand the terms that we’re using. They already understand the process.

 

Shea Low:

And that all goes, the credit all goes to Axon coaches, Robbie, Dan, and Dane for coaching them the process. That cuts that part, where we have-

Tamara Turner: You’re not [crosstalk 00:38:49] starting from the ground up.

Shea Low: Yeah. So then we just go straight into contract summary. If you’re happy, sign it.

Robbie Turner: Yeah. Because you wouldn’t get that with mum and dad people, right?

Shea Low: No.

Robbie Turner: When mum and dads are like, “Hey, I’m going to go and buy a house,” sure, they’ve been living in a house for 30 years, but that doesn’t make them an expert on being able to buy a house anymore.

Shea Low: Even just the terms, like unconditional, or settlement. People would be like, “What does that mean? What does that mean?”

Robbie Turner: All right, let’s put Shea on the spot. Shea, what does unconditional mean? We’ve we’ve spoken about it a little bit, so it’s a bit of a technical term, so I suppose, Shea, if you can put it forward as-

Shea Low: I guess the easiest way to look at it is point of no return, like Robbie mentioned. Because once you go unconditional, if you decided that you change your mind, or if your circumstances change, you can’t get out from the contract. You’re literally locked into the contract and will have to move forward to settlement.

Tamara Turner: That goes both ways, I guess, as well. They can’t pull out either. A seller wouldn’t be able to-

Shea Low: The seller wouldn’t-

Tamara Turner: Be able to pull out either.

Shea Low: The seller wouldn’t be able to … Well, I guess, for the buyer perspective, depending if it’s not registered yet and, say, the sunset clause, meaning the seller’s meant to register this land by a certain date, and the seller didn’t manage to, then the buyer has that opportunity to terminate. But you have to wait, on average, for a land, about 15 to 18 months from the contract date.

Tamara Turner: Wow.

Robbie Turner: I mean, that’s very relevant at the moment, because some of the land registration timelines that we are seeing are blowing out over 12 to 15 months now.

Tamara Turner: Yeah, but demand is crazy.

Shea Low: So that’s, after going unconditional, unless it goes past the sunset date, really, the buyer is locked into the contract and needs to settle, regardless whether the circumstances change and won’t be able to proceed to settlement. This is why Deb comes into the picture, again, and this is why Deb, I guess, from what I see, she doesn’t try to apply for mortgage until when it’s closer to registration.

Shea Low: So, number one, the mortgage document’s not going to lapse for them to reapply. And then we don’t go unconditional as well until closer to registration date.

Tamara Turner: Yeah.

Robbie Turner: Well it’s one of those things in the majority of cases, that banks can’t go out there and do their evaluation as part of their mortgage assessment until there’s pegs in the ground. And those pegs in on the ground until about six weeks before the block is about to register, so there’s a little bit of synchronicity that needs to go on there. Now, what-

Tamara Turner: That goes back to, again, those relationships. If you didn’t have that relationship, that would be a huge shit fight.

Robbie Turner: Now, we’re talking specifically about Queensland law here, and as you are very well aware that the property law across Australia is not synchronized between Queensland and New South Wales, and Victoria, or SA.

Robbie Turner: So as Daniel and I talk about during our education and coaching sessions, when you buy a property up here in Queensland, you are fully protected by a finance clause, all the way up into a point where you are satisfied. You either proceed, step over that line of no return, go unconditional, or you pull out. Up to you. But either way, you’re not going to get sued and you’re going to get your deposit back.

Robbie Turner: Down in New South Wales, you go ahead and explain that though-

Dan Irwin: Yes.

Robbie Turner: [crosstalk 00:42:04] it’s different from a layman’s terms perspective.

Dan Irwin: Yeah, absolutely. So, pretty much, if you’re going down to New South Wales and you go ahead to exchange your contract, so you as the buyer sign your contracts, and then the seller would unlikely sign their kind of side of the contract until you’ve [inaudible 00:42:21] to put your deposit in the game. And that is at the point in time where you waive your finance clause.

Robbie Turner: And that’s a 10% cash deposit, non-refundable.

Dan Irwin: And if you can’t get finance, when the land registers six or 12 months down the track, you can kiss goodbye to that 10% deposit, and, as Shea alluded to earlier, the seller is well within their rights to go ahead and start chasing after you for damages as well, to be able to-

Tamara Turner: That comes down to different risk and different plans, you know? People, where you decide on where you’re going to invest, or buy, that comes down to the overall plan. What’s your risk strategy? What’s your personal situation that you can take on that risk?

Robbie Turner: We have had loads of clients that either come from New South Wales or come from Victoria, and they come like, “Hey, we want to buy a property.” We’re like, “Well, as you know from our training, you can buy in Victoria, New South Wales, or Queensland. That’s the three,” and the little micro markets in those areas, you know? We can now have that conversation.

Robbie Turner: They’ll like, “Yeah, yeah. I’m from, sort of, Melbourne. I’m really looking forward to buying a property in Melbourne.” No dramas, let’s do that. Let me just give you a layman’s terms understanding of what the rules of the road are down there when you buy a property in Melbourne.

Robbie Turner: They like, “Oh, that seems a bit risky.” I said, “As opposed to buying a property in Queensland, put 1000 bucks down fully protected by finance clause, et cetera, et cetera.” They’re like, “Yeah, even though I’m from Melbourne, I don’t want to undertake that level of risk. Let’s go buy a property in Queensland.”

Dan Irwin: That’s a typical one too, because, and I love all you Victorians out there, if you’re from Melbourne, I can almost guarantee you the number one place that you’re going to want to go and buy an investment property is Melbourne. 100%. I don’t know what it is about you Victorians, but it’s what you-

Tamara Turner: That’s not saying we only push people into Queensland, like that’s our driving nature, whatever, it definitely comes down to risk, and the plan. For people that have a few investment properties under their belt, their risk is a lot lower, right?

Robbie Turner: Well their tolerance to risk is much higher because they’ve got the buoyancy in their portfolio to do so.

Tamara Turner: Correct.

Robbie Turner: I just want to be crystal clear on something. We’re never providing legal advice, or tax advice, or financial advice. We’re literally saying, “Hey. As people that work in the industry every day, this is the generic rules of the road, it’s our obligation to let you know what they are. Go speak to the solicitor about it so you know, from a legal sense of the advice you’re actually getting there, from a macro strategy perspective, which way would you like to go?”

Tamara Turner: And that’s absolutely why we rely on our professional partners, like Shea, our conveyancing solicitor, like [inaudible 00:44:49], our accountant/financial planner, like Deb, the mortgage broker. These are the people we’re relying on because that’s their specialty.

Robbie Turner: Yep. So it’s a really, it’s a wonderful part of being in a business and sort of developing that strategy and getting to the point where they put that expression of interest in, they’re communicating with you and getting the summaries of the contracts and using DocuSign, et cetera, et cetera.

Tamara Turner: Hasn’t that come a long way?

Robbie Turner: Yeah-

Tamara Turner: Signing of contracts.

Shea Low: [corsstalk 00:45:14].

Robbie Turner: That was certainly something that COVID helped us a lot out with.

Shea Low: And settling via PEXA as well, and thanks to … Well, hate to say this, but thanks to COVID, that it pushes everyone through to the next electronic phase.

Dan Irwin: Yeah.

Tamara Turner: DocuSign and PEXA.

Robbie Turner: And it was gradually coming, but I tell you what, there was some of those developers over there that were really dragging their feet, going, “Oh, this doesn’t appear on my desk, for me to get my fancy Montblanc fountain pen out and look like a wanker while I’m signing.” Because all they do now is they click a button, and no one knows that they’ve signed those 150 pages.

Tamara Turner: Wasn’t it funny, early on, we’d been pushing like the digital signing for quite a while, and there was a few, yeah, as you said, dragging the feet. Then suddenly it got done and they’re like, “Well, that was bloody quick. Oh, that didn’t take two weeks to come in the mail.”

 

Robbie Turner: That was one of the one of the builders and developers down in Melbourne. I was like, “Mate, send it out on Friday, it’s gonna be back by Monday.” They’re like, “But the client lives in Perth.” I’m like, “There’s this fucking thing called the internet. If you upload it to DocuSign, they’ll get it via email, they’ll click a few buttons and return it, and it’ll be on your desk by Monday.”

Tamara Turner: And the way technology works, that is all-

Robbie Turner: This is last year, by the way, not fucking 1950 [crosstalk 00:46:23].

Dan Irwin: “2020 called, we’d like our internet back, please.”

Tamara Turner: There was, but there’s so much security and so much technology behind it that they can find, they can see where it was signed, what it was, all these-

Dan Irwin: Totally. There’s full tracking-

Tamara Turner: It’s full tracking.

Dan Irwin: They know exactly who’s bloody opening it.

Shea Low: And the bank wants to see that as well as part of the requirement for the finance.

Robbie Turner: Yeah, it needs to be fully disclosed. I think it was just one of those teething issues where, when a new piece of technology comes into play, people are very standoffish until they actually understand it. And humans are really opposed to change.

Tamara Turner: Oh, absolutely.

Robbie Turner: So it’s like, “We’re gonna change this thing.” And they’re like-

Tamara Turner: “No.”

Robbie Turner: The immediate response is, “No.” You immediately push back on it. So it’s just a matter of having one of those huge shocks to the entire environment, like COVID-

Shea Low: One of those things that COVID was, we’re [inaudible 00:47:11] a winner from COVID from-

Robbie Turner: It was funny, poor old Deb had to fight with it all the time like, “No, I’ve got to do face-to-face appointments,” and, “I’ve got to go via snail mail, and doing this.” And then COVID hit-

Tamara Turner: She was going to the airports and meeting  with people-

Robbie Turner: We spoke about that last week, and then the banks weren’t making any money. They’re like, [inaudible 00:47:26] like, “No, it’s not part of our policy, we can’t do that. Privacy. We had it, we know it’s not the right client. Find a way around it.” [crosstalk 00:47:34] Then they’re not making any money, “Oh, you can use the technology. If we need to fucking meet our targets and write the loans, don’t worry about the policy. The policy’s fine, just fucking get the money rolling in.”

Robbie Turner: Mate, we were just fucking shaking our heads, [inaudible 00:47:47] where we were like, “What, you bunch of fucking hypocrites. Now you can’t get the fucking money in the door, you’re like, ‘I don’t care about the policy anymore. Just fucking find a way to bring me the money. Show me the money.'”

Tamara Turner: There was a lot of F bombs in there. What were you saying, Shea?

Shea Low: Oh, yeah. It’s just, a lot of banks these days now issue the mortgage docs, 90% DocuSign as well, and then only the actual mortgage document that needs to be printed out, witnessed, and signed. And that just cut all the errors.

Shea Low: Because before, I guess before COVID, a lot of, I think most of it was still paper-base, so they have strict instructions. All these have to be double sided, except for this. Mortgage documents needs to be single sided, and a lot of time we see, when the client sign it, return to the bank, they’re either single sided, or the mortgage doc’s double sided, and it’s just too hard.

Tamara Turner: Or they’ve missed a signature, they’ve missed one-

Shea Low: Yeah, with DocuSign there’s no room for error. You just sign it-

Tamara Turner: Yeah, it doesn’t let you proceed.

Shea Low: Done.

Tamara Turner: And that really comes down to the actual mortgage document.

Robbie Turner: Absolutely. Babe, what an absolute [inaudible 00:48:52] session, I think-

Dan Irwin: It was.

Robbie Turner: Today. How are you feeling now, Shea? with like-

Tamara Turner: Did you have fun?

Dan Irwin: I reckon you could sit here for another half-an-hour, and [inaudible 00:48:59] keep talking.

Shea Low: Yeah. I’m fine now.

Dan Irwin: Yeah.

Shea Low: Not as nervous.

Tamara Turner: The vodka’s sunk in.

Shea Low: The vodka.

Robbie Turner: As soon as we got stuck into talking about your technical expertize, you could just see your face lit up and your eyes became alight, lit, and you’re like, “I know all of this stuff.”

Dan Irwin: Course you do.

Robbie Turner: “This is right in my wheelhouse.”

Tamara Turner: We’re not sending you down the garden path.

Shea Low: I’m not a public, I can’t do speaking… Even though if I have to do a speech in front of people I know, I can’t do that.

Tamara Turner: Yeah. Well, you’ve just done absolutely amazing. So, well done.

Shea Low: Thank you for having me.

Robbie Turner:

Thanks very much for joining us, mate, and giving, I suppose, our listeners the opportunity to get a little bit of a glimpse inside your world, when you start talking about all those little technical elements that you’re doing on our clients behalf, as part of that high level of trust that they certainly put into you as well, mate. So thank you very much for what you do for our clients.

Shea Low: Thank you.

Dan Irwin: Thanks for joining us, ladies and gents. Thank you again, Shea. Have a great morning everyone. See you later.

Tamara Turner: Bye.

Robbie Turner: See you. Bye.

Robbie Turner: Hey, thanks for tuning into today’s podcast. If you enjoy listening, make sure you give us a five star rating, hit subscribe so you’ll be first in line to get it in your inbox every week on a Tuesday.

 

Robbie Turner: Whilst you’re at it, open up your favorite social media app, be that Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube, and connect with Axon Property Group. This is where you’ll see us every day, sharing the secrets of creating multimillion dollar property portfolios and performing to the highest levels of your life. You’ll get exclusive behind the scenes access to what it really takes to build a life that you love. You’ll also discover how to secure your financial future as an ADF member or veteran, and I assure your future self will love you for it.

 

Robbie Turner: Thanks again for listening, and …

 

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