Bulletproof Your Body: Injury Prevention & Peak Performance for Veterans & Athletes

Video Transcript

[Robbie] (0:15 – 1:03)
G’day ladies and gents, Robbie Turner is my name. Welcome to another cracking episode of Axons Unleashed. I say that all the time, but we are very selective with our guests.

I don’t just want any fucking Tom, Dick and Harry here, although I’m happy to talk about pretty much anything and everything. But as a quick little heads up before I introduce my amazing guests, I’ve been wanting to talk about this particular topic for ages. Hopefully you’re all thinking, what the fuck is that going to mean?

Property. It’s not about, not property. I get the opportunity to talk about that all the time, but it’s all about how can I characterize it?

Exercising my way out of the need to have a shoulder replacement. And now I’m joined by James, mate, Axon extraordinaire, five years almost coming up to you being here, but first time on the podcast.

[James] (1:03 – 1:06)
Long time listener. Long time. First time on the call.

[Robbie] (1:08 – 1:09)
Welcome mate.

[James] (1:09 – 1:11)
Thank you. Axon Unleashed. It is the first time.

Yeah.

[Robbie] (1:11 – 1:16)
Just give us a bloody 30 second spiel on who you are and how much you love working here and I’ll slip you a 50.

[James] (1:17 – 1:39)
All right. Pretty good. Yeah.

So discharged. What was that? 2019.

Came across the Axon boat and I’ve been working here for five years now on property. So before that, of course I built my first property as a client whilst in sunny Afghanistan with Robbie by my side. So yeah, don the shirt, doing this job for five years and I absolutely love it.

[Robbie] (1:39 – 1:54)
So here we are. What’s it like, mate, when you meet a client, take them through the process, they build a house, we do an end to build coaching session with them, they’ve made a hundred grand and they’re just so grateful. What’s that feeling like being a service provider, noting you felt it when I did the same thing with you and Kaitlin?

[James] (1:55 – 2:14)
Yeah. I guess if I take a step back and look at my previous role as an Intel, always having to report on the bad news and telling the bosses something is going to happen or something that may happen or that probability. My job now is to tell people how much they have succeeded with their property and how happy they are.

[Robbie] (2:15 – 2:15)
Good on you, mate.

[James] (2:15 – 2:30)
And if I can sort of contextualize it, there was a client the other day who, you know, Josh and Amy, love yous, took a little selfie because it marked their significant component of their life together in buying a property.

[Robbie] (2:30 – 2:39)
So you were presenting the property to them, put an expression of interest in and they captured it with a selfie. They captured it with a selfie. Now what sort of selfie was it?

It was a little Polaroid. Polaroid. Polaroid camera.

[James] (2:39 – 3:02)
Old school, new school. Young couple with a Polaroid camera took a selfie and they put it up on their pinup board, their life achievements. And I’ve been doing this job for five years, like I said, and until then, it didn’t really dawn on me that we are significantly making that pinpoint change in people’s lives where they pivot and make that big step.

So it’s exhilarating.

[Robbie] (3:02 – 3:03)
So good, mate.

[James] (3:03 – 3:04)
It really is. So good. Yeah.

[Robbie] (3:04 – 3:11)
Now, of course, you’re here because you too share a journey of significant injuries from the military. Yep. You haven’t had to have a major operation.

[James] (3:12 – 3:13)
So far. Not yet.

[Robbie] (3:13 – 3:14)
A couple of small ones.

[James] (3:15 – 3:15)
Yeah.

[Robbie] (3:15 – 3:38)
Nothing major. That’s just a bit of panel beating, mate. Yes.

There’s been no muscle body replacement of parts. And of course, you and I are on our DVA journey. Yes.

DVA rehab journey. Yeah. Going to our service providers.

We’ve got the same osteopath we go to, do a bit of rigged recovery. But you’ve got this awesome sort of physiotherapist, would you characterize him, Steve, you’d be? What is he?

What’s he got on his shirt?

[Steve] (3:39 – 3:40)
Exercise physiologist. Physiologist.

[Robbie] (3:41 – 3:52)
So you’ve been talking about him for ages. And I know you and Justin are going there and you’ve got a nice little routine. How awesome is it when you’ve got an injury and you’ve now got someone that you’ve created a relationship with that you’ve committed to now rocking up to?

[James] (3:52 – 3:52)
Yep.

[Robbie] (3:52 – 3:54)
You never cancel on those sessions, do you?

[James] (3:54 – 4:16)
No, no. Okay. Well, it’s, you’ve got physiotherapy, which of course it has its place, but when we’re incorporating that in with exercise with Steve, it’s about really getting your body moving because a physiotherapist can do a bit of treatment on hand and then send you home with a couple of exercises, but it’s up to you to do that in your own time.

And let’s face it, no one really sticks to their routine 100% of the time.

[Robbie] (4:16 – 4:17)
Correct.

[James] (4:17 – 4:46)
All right. And until you have, you bring in the exercise physiologist, where you have somebody, you’ve got a timing, a booking, you are going to a gym and you are working with your, on recovering your body with it in the physiology. So it’s motivation because you are, you know, I’m feeling better.

And also because I’ve got somebody there waiting for me, that’s dependent on me being there. So accountability.

[Robbie] (4:47 – 5:00)
I’m lucky. I’ve got Matt, my brother-in-law that does the same thing with me. And I guess, yeah, you’re like, Hey, this dude, Steve, he doesn’t have a defense background, but he’s working with the defense community over the last 10 years.

I really want him to come on Axons Unleashed. Yep. Boom.

Pivot across.

[Steve] (5:00 – 5:01)
There we are.

[Robbie] (5:01 – 5:03)
Welcome to Axons Unleashed, mate. How are you?

[Steve] (5:03 – 5:04)
Cheers, mate.

Thanks for having me.

[Robbie] (5:04 – 5:26)
Now you and I just met outside for half an hour, but I do feel like I sort of know a little bit about you because James and Justin just rave about you all the time. So mate, I’m really looking forward to allowing you to tell your story about how much you love providing that sort of exercise physiologist, hands-on physical care, mental care, overall wellbeing and like, you know, maybe some of the trends that you’ve seen over the industry as well.

[Steve] (5:26 – 5:34)
Yeah. Yeah, for sure, mate. No, firstly, I’d like to appreciate for having me on.

It’s actually a good honor to be here with James. You’ve been working with him for about 18 months.

[James] (5:34 – 5:35)
Yeah. Thank you.

[Steve] (5:35 – 6:05)
And as I was saying before, I’ve been working with the veteran community probably for a good solid 10 years on and off, but whereabouts, but in between with a couple of athletes and, you know, different sports teams and a mix of stuff, but there’s always been veterans peppered in there and sort of at the, at the moment it’s come a bit of a niche of mine now in the last two to three years, mainly working with the boys and getting them going. So yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s been a good experience and yeah, I’m happy to come here today and have a chat with you guys about Jamesy and all the other boys.

Yep.

[Robbie] (6:06 – 6:17)
Let’s, let’s do what we normally do on the podcast here. Take us back to the start, like get to know you, who you are, like where’d you grow up? What just sort of, what did you excel in at school and then how did you get into the exercise physiologist game?

[Steve] (6:17 – 6:31)
Yeah. Yeah. And probably much like you guys.

I was a super active kid. I grew up in Northern New South Wales Casino, a little country town.

[Robbie] (6:31 – 6:37)
I was like 17 once I did a road trip up here with some mates, like fucking casino, fuck the Pacific highway. Let’s go to the casino over there in the early nineties. And there’s no casino there.

[Steve] (6:37 – 6:41)
I was going to say, if you blinked, you would have missed the town, false advertising.

 

[Robbie] (6:41 – 6:47)
There’s not much there now. Shout out to all my followers in casino and it was fucking a lot less there in 1992. Let me tell you.

 

[Steve] (6:48 – 7:57)
That’s right. Yeah. And yeah, it’s, it’s not what you think it is down at casino, but it is a funny old country town where the beef capital, which is arguably with, I think it’s Brockhampton, which is like a bit of a funny dynamic that we always have an argument with. But but yeah, I grew up down that way and I really loved rugby league sport and all that sort of type of thing. And I was fortunate enough, I was able to get like a bit of a sporting scholarship to come up here and went to PBC and, um, during that playing like sort of like a bit of elite sport with rugby league with the AIS, I really fell in love with strength and conditioning side of things.

And then as I got a little bit older playing competitive sport, I was traveling overseas and I’ll study an exercise science cause I loved it. And then it was, I was over there studying kinesiology, playing rugby and it was during sort of that time. I obviously found there was my knack, obviously something I’ve been doing since I was a teenager in and out of gyms, helping people with even just PTing back in the early days when I was younger.

Um, I sort of came across exercise physiology and it was basically putting exercise as the forefront to helping people with clinical and injuries and stuff like that and using the evidence with exercise physiology or exercise science to help people’s lives really. So I went gung-ho with that and I finished that up probably when I was about 25.

[Robbie] (7:58 – 8:06)
Right. Um, it brings me straight to a point that you mentioned outside, you said, uh, if you’re carrying around a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

[Steve] (8:06 – 8:06)
Yeah.

[Robbie] (8:06 – 8:08)
What am I referring to there?

[Steve] (8:08 – 8:39)
And so that’s probably, and I’d be to this as well and every other allied health, but we all have our biases with treatment.

And so like I was saying, if you’re just focusing on the one area, like we’re talking about, like say you fear a surgeon, the only way you’re going to fix things and the way your scope is, is through surgery. So you might go there and they’re like, well, you need surgery on this or that. And you’re not really going to stray outside of your scope.

Whereas I’m obviously a little bit heavily more biased towards, no, let’s, let’s try and rehab this thing. Or let’s, there is some evidence for this.

[Robbie] (8:39 – 8:43)
Can I tell my story in that case? Yeah, absolutely. Because that’s exactly what happened to me.

And you’ve, you’ve known me for a long time.

[James] (8:43 – 8:47)
Well, it’s effectively the path of least resistance in a way. Yeah. Why would you go through a full on surgery?

[Robbie] (8:47 – 10:57)
I can fix it for you. But boom, boom, boom. And then, um, you know, you and I shared my many social times outside of the Axon space.

So we’ve seen each other’s lives evolve and whatever else. As part of my DVA stuff about 18 months ago, I went to my surgeon and he’s like, yeah, for those watching, I couldn’t even really lift my shoulder up past horizontal, let alone put it down over my back. Couldn’t put a belt on none of that stuff.

I couldn’t stand at ease with my arms behind my back there, a very basic, the most basic drill movement. And he’s like, yeah, your shoulder’s really bad. I’m like, bro, it’s been like this for fucking, I love calling surgeons, bro.

I love calling generals, bro. And he goes, yeah, mate, we’re going to have to, you know, surgery for you. I’m like, okay, cool.

I sort of thought that would be the case. And he’s writing up the DVA report that this is because of the injuries and artillery and special forces and fucking carrying ammo boxes and all that stuff. Right.

And I said, right, but it’s probably going to be three or four months at the minimum, Mr. Turner, before you can get in a seat to actually for us to do that. I said, is there something I can do in the meantime? He said, yeah, mate, there actually is.

You can do a bit of prehab. I’m like, fucking, I’ve heard of rehab. I’ve never heard of prehab.

I said, what’s that? He goes, just go see someone, go through your DVA doctor, go see someone to sort of just start to get a bit of movement in the shoulder. And I did that.

And I went to a physio. And like you said, he’s there and you know, he does a bit of panel bidding for half an hour, we do five minutes in the gym, he goes, there’s the exercises, go buy a ball, go buy a fucking thing. He goes, you know, I might just, the number one person in my experience that we let down all the time is ourselves, unless we learn accountability, which I know that you’ve formed a huge part of Jane.

And then little by little, I just went to see, am I right, this physio thing’s not working, I need someone to actually be there and commit to. My brother-in-law is a personal trainer, not allied health and all that sort of stuff. So not through DVA, I fund it, I don’t care, I pay him good money, because he’s part of the family, I don’t want to take the piss.

And I’ve exercised my way out of it. Now, I’m fucking miles away from having a shoulder operation. And I know that’s exactly what you’re doing to James, how does that make you feel when you have a broken veteran come to you, and they’re probably on the pathway of having a pretty major operation with whatever part of their body is, and based on the work you do with them, they don’t have to go down the operation path anymore.

[Steve] (10:58 – 12:21)
That’s right. Now, it’s, you know, yeah, and it’s huge. And to see that happen, even with your story, I’ve seen that happen on countless periods, but it is fulfilling to say that and to not have to go under like, a full on surgery and avoid that is a huge, huge thing to achieve.

And it goes to show and with your experience, it probably realigns with like I was saying earlier, that is what the sort of data is suggesting in the research. And even whether you’re a chiropractic osteopath, and you’re following the evidence and research, it is, they’re all starting to formulate and if you look at the American gyms into this sort of model where exercise is the mainstay because of the effectiveness that you’re just saying, there’s probably two big research studies. One was on the shoulder, and one was on the knee.

And they got two groups. And basically with one group, they had, say, for example, I forget what the numbers were, but they’d get 1000 people and they do a sham surgery where they just cut it open, go in there with a scope and have a look at what the shoulder is looking like and then stitch it back up. But the guy that got the sham surgery didn’t know whether he had the surgery or not.

And then they did a follow up group, another 1000 people where they actually did the surgery. And then they did follow ups about a year or two later, I’m not too sure what the actual timeframe was, and then looked at their physical capacity later on post surgery. And lo and behold, they both did their rehab, and there was no difference with the outcomes or pain levels of both the surgery groups.

And that was the same with knee surgeries as well.

[Robbie] (12:21 – 12:25)
So just let that sink in for a second.

[Steve] (12:25 – 12:35)
It’s a bit of education in that because obviously, like I was saying, sometimes you do need the surgery. And that’s, that’s fair. If your functions fully out of there, there’s sometimes it’s not possible.

[Robbie] (12:35 – 12:46)
We are not dousing or allowing our listeners to disagree with what your surgeon’s activities are.

[Steve] (12:47 – 12:47)
Exactly.

[Robbie] (12:47 – 13:00)
But I’m just putting forward my own and now your shared experience James of if there is a time lapse between flash to bang decision of surgery to when it’s going to occur, do something and see what happens.

[Steve] (13:00 – 13:11)
Exactly. And I’ll say that to all the patients like, look, you’ve always got the option of surgery if you want to have it, but why not have a crack at see where we go without with their exercise, our rehab, our strengthening, and then make a call from there.

[Robbie] (13:11 – 13:30)
The physio said one thing to me, and I’m going to pass it on, of course, because it still resonated with me. I was going to see him for weeks and weeks, and I just didn’t feel like I was getting anywhere. Yeah.

Couldn’t lift any extra weight, got no less strength, mobility, and everything. Flexibility just wasn’t coming along.

[Steve] (13:30 – 13:30)
Yeah.

[Robbie] (13:30 – 14:28)
I’m like, man, I don’t know if I’m just wasting your time. I’m putting in the effort. I’m trying to get this moving.

I said, it’s not working. He goes, you’re the type of guy, I’ll use a hammer analogy again, he goes, you’ve got a fucking sledgehammer in life. That’s a fair analogy.

No one’s ever said that to me before, but I’m pulling a China shops, probably a more active terminology to use. He goes, mate, what we’re doing here is ice pick. Just tapping away at the ice pick.

We’re creating an ice sculpture now. You hit an ice sculpture with anything other than an ice pick, it’s going to fucking break. Yeah, yeah.

He goes, just commit to the process. This is a long-term thing. You didn’t break it in a few weeks, you’re not going to fix it in a few weeks.

It’s been immobile for the last few months. We’re going to get the rust off the joint, and get it moving, and get it lubricating. The whole motion is lotion.

That’s right, yeah, yeah. Once I had that mindset shift, my axons were working differently, I’m like, all right, I’m now going to fucking commit to this for the long term. Here I am now, nearly two years later, and I’m 10 years away from having a bloody SR surgery.

[Steve] (14:28 – 15:17)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Do you feel as if you’re the curator of the ice pick? Say someone like yourself that’s very bullish, you want to get straight back into activity next week.

The biggest thing, like you were saying, and probably like you guys with the young people you have wanting to get into the property is education on the injury, but also the timeframes and just being at ease with that. It’s like, oh, I want to come in and buy a house, but there’s always going to be this lengthy process. Potentially, there’s a few little nuances.

It is possible, but there is just this little educational period. Then once you’re on board with that, and a lot of people see the value in strengthening it, after getting the education, you will see the outcomes a lot better. Obviously, the mindset to it is a huge thing.

That’s like the power of placebo too, isn’t it? If you’re on board and you believe it’s going to work, it most likely will work too.

[Robbie] (15:17 – 15:26)
Well, this is the message I’m trying to pass on. I wish someone had given me this message back in the day. Can I switch to cut to you, James?

Is this resonating with you as well? Well, you’ve seen the journey I’ve been on.

[James] (15:27 – 16:28)
Absolutely. Even when the doctor said to me, we can perform surgery on your back, and we can sever nerves and reduce the pain. In the meantime, and there is surgery, like you said, surgery is always an option.

In the meantime, let’s try this option, going through an exercise physiologist. For the first six months of working with you, Steve, it was very lightweight, right? It was all more mobility, getting everything just moving again.

I knew I could lift far more, but you’re like, no, just keep it like this. At the time, like you were saying, it’s like, I’m just taking tiny chips. What’s happening?

But one thing I did notice all of a sudden is my headspace. You said headspace a few times, getting out, getting active. And then all of a sudden, the pain started reducing.

And the headspace of being able to get out and interact and start moving your body. And even if you are making tiny chips, my headspace changed a lot. And that’s the second component.

[Robbie] (16:28 – 16:30)
Your attitude and your happiness and your motivation.

[James] (16:30 – 17:08)
Yeah, like mental health is, you know, always a second component of, you know, you can have surgery and I’m sure many people have seen this before where you had a surgery. The next following weeks is demoralizing because you either, like I say, you have a shot, you can’t move your shoulder, you can’t move your back or you’re stuck in bed and then you’re on painkillers and then you’ve got to do the recovery anyway. You know, so that headspace, you’re still going to go through that anyway.

And the way I looked at it was, let’s try, do this before I have to make a surgery choice. And I’m so happy that I’ve not been forced to make that surgery choice. This is one of those things, you got to choose your heart.

That’s right.

[Robbie] (17:09 – 17:30)
It’s going to be, you go have the surgery and go through a really, you know, long and laborious, hard recovery session. Exactly. Or you just get it moving again and try and do everything you can as per exhibit A and exhibit B.

Of that, now you don’t have to have the surgery and you pop out the other end. And it’s fucking so much easier.

[James] (17:30 – 17:58)
And I mean, I’m not saying that I don’t have pain anymore, but it means, you know, you’re not God who’s just gone, the pain is gone, let’s go to the gym. But it’s certainly, it’s more manageable and… Quality of life, man.

Yeah. And without a surgery. And rewind your brain, rewind your axons, might I say.

You know, Steve, what… What was I like when you first gave me needles? That’s a great question.

Yeah, let’s talk about the needles thing.

[Steve] (17:58 – 18:10)
Yeah, yeah. Dry needling. It wasn’t even probably to the fact of even like the dry needling itself.

I remember when James first came in, obviously he’d been beaten down. He had chronic pain in the lower back, which was killing you a bit.

[James] (18:10 – 18:10)
Yeah.

[Steve] (18:10 – 20:06)
Your shoulder was cooked. And there was just an all around disbelief and a bad mental state, which you do get. And I deal with that with a lot of veterans, which does…

And it compiles on everything else. Like, you got this chronic pain, you’re not sleeping well, your health’s not well, you’re not exercising, you’re not eating well, you know, your relationships go down. There’s all this compounding sort of thing.

And everything’s a little bit too hard at that point. And like I was saying, that little chip away, that modality is the way we went out of it. And then when I took James in, we did our initial assessments.

We just started really slow. And then what you get is this compounding effect of self-belief, this strengthening. You start to see a little bit of the results.

And, you know, at the start, you’ve got to give yourself a bit of grace and just go in there and start doing the fundamentals. And then all of a sudden we started from, like we were saying, couldn’t even overhead press with a bar, couldn’t deadlift, couldn’t pick up objects really without having pain in the lower back, to deadlifting 120 kilos, to overhead pressing, benching 100 kilos, like an absolute turnaround. But probably to that one, like say with the Axon analogy, the biggest thing probably is obviously you do get your neurological adaptations and stuff like that.

But as you’re getting stronger, whether we change the actual physiology or not, there is this perception of the brain and your capability and a downgrading of your actual total pain. And then as you get an increase in your mental health and your clarity, you get fitter and stronger, and you’re seeing the benefits, there is a down-regulation of pain. And because pain is a complex thing, it can be unregulated.

And if you’re in those feedback loops where it’s, I can’t do this, that really hurts, you’ll self-defeat yourself. You tell yourself, you can’t make it out of it. And it’s going to, I’m like this for life.

And I’ve got a back of a seven-year-old and I hear this all the time. Quite unquiet, I’ve said myself out loud.

[Robbie] (20:06 – 20:10)
Seven or 70? 70, yeah.

[Steve] (20:10 – 21:05)
But that’s the golden thing. And there’s a lot of that, you will have that belief and you’ll feel that as well, which is true. And then there’s an analogy, particularly with veterans, I sort of like to come back to with pain and the individualities.

And particularly say, for example, people potentially with PTSD is like the snake walking through the grass. So if I walk, if someone walks through the grass, and they get hit by a stick, and they don’t really have a phobia of the stick, they’ll just react normally, oh shit, there was a stick. If you’ve got a big phobia of snakes and you get hit, the initial actual physiological reaction is detrimental and affects the body like it’s real.

But that comes from the brain’s perception of it. And so when we increase, obviously your strength and your capabilities and whatever else, you actually down-regulate and the belief mindset changes and then you’re good to go from there. And then there’s no absolute right or wrong ways to do things.

It’s just, yeah, moving forward with it and building that self-confidence.

[Robbie] (21:06 – 21:33)
I know for a fact, every single veteran listening to this podcast or watching it on whatever platform it is, is just sitting here doing these ones. Yep, can relate, can relate, can relate, can relate. Let me go back to the prehab versus rehab.

Do you feel as if you have more people come to you that have had the opportunity of like, my circumstance or James circumstance, we’re trying to avoid a surgery, or the hammer’s dropped metaphorically and they’re now on rehab with you?

[Steve] (21:34 – 22:29)
Yeah, so in early in my piece, I think there was very much like people were just like, you’ve done whatever, this is the only really fix. But then as I said, there’s starting to be a catch up with the actual evidence that’s coming up. So I am, a lot of doctors and a lot of people are going to try the alternative methods more now, but particularly back in the older days.

You know, I’ve got a lot of old veterans that have got fused backs, which really shouldn’t have happened. And the research for that is bad, not, and they needed it at the time. And I’m not discrediting anyone that’s done that to them.

But then there’s, and like botched up knees, not, and it’s not from the surgeon’s fault, but they probably could have just rehabbed those. And you’ve only got so much organic tissue and to go in and manipulate it around. Like I said, again, sometimes you’re in a position, depending on where you will need surgery.

But at the end of the day, I always sort of say, you can’t go wrong getting strong. And then if you need to get the surgery. I love that one.

[Robbie] (22:30 – 22:32)
You can’t go wrong getting strong.

[Steve] (22:32 – 22:32)
That’s right.

[Robbie] (22:32 – 22:33)
Yeah.

[Steve] (22:33 – 22:51)
And then even to that point with the prehab rehab, the surgeons are always going to push to do some strengthening anyway, because the outcomes are so much better. Your connective tissue is better, your biomechanics are better. You have a better healing rate when you, the fitter you are, when you get out of it, you’ve got better blood flow, better mental health to it.

[Robbie] (22:51 – 22:55)
Yeah, that’s what the old mate was saying to me about, this is the reason why you should manage your prehab.

[Steve] (22:55 – 23:09)
Yeah, and then you’ll come out and your post-surgery outcomes. And then I’ve had people that have done their rehab and they’ve weighed it up and they’ve got an increased function. They’re like, nah, I still want to get this right.

I want to get the surgery. And then they go do that and they still have a pretty good outcome. But they’re not starting from here.

They’re starting from here.

[Robbie] (23:09 – 23:10)
That’s right.

[Steve] (23:10 – 23:20)
Yeah. And if you’re a deconditioned person, go straight into surgery. You’re sort of going from nothing to a deficit and then trying to build your way back out of that.

Yeah, it’s powerful. No one wants that.

[Robbie] (23:21 – 23:29)
Very powerful. Have you had some really horrible injuries that you’ve had to try and treat? Like teaching people how to walk again and stuff?

[Steve] (23:29 – 24:42)
Yeah, there’s like, I haven’t worked too much in acute hospital settings myself. Like definitely when I was sort of going through university and doing placements at different physio clinics, you did see like some of those acute sort of brain injuries. You saw different, I’ve worked with cardiovascular patients as well that have had like stage four, you know, heart failure or even emphysema and what.

And you can see all the various horrible sort of conditions you can get out there, but can be helped with a bit of exercise. But and like even still currently today, even with veterans themselves, like I’ve got one of my patients, he’s a SAS, ex-SAS, but lost his foot serving overseas as well. So and there’s only so much you can sort of do, but it is an improvement in the quality of their life.

And that’s what you’re going for. You can’t really, some of them you really can’t get completely out of pain and get, which is, you know, it’s hard to face that. But if you can give them some quality of life and an improvement in fitness or, you know, able to do stuff they weren’t able to do or thought they weren’t going to be able to do, it’s yeah, it’s pretty rewarding.

But yeah, back to your point, there’s been some shockers for sure over the years. But yeah.

[James] (24:43 – 25:02)
Oh, I mean, on the back of that, like one of the one of the cool things I like working with you, Steve, as well, is it’s not just about going into a gym environment and working on weights and recovering the shoulder. If if I walk in and I say my back is cooked today from that session the other day, you’ll be like, right, well, let’s just leave this out for now. Let’s go in the room and do some physical treatment.

[Steve] (25:02 – 25:02)
Yeah.

[James] (25:03 – 25:19)
So it might be massage, might be needling, might be stretching. So you’re not just about that physical. You know, you can do Pilates and the list goes on.

Yeah, it’s not. You know, you’re a personal trainer in a sense, but you’ve got so much more experience and abilities to be able to treat.

[Steve] (25:19 – 25:39)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It’ll come like this. It’s not black and white rehab.

And you you could be killing it like at some point. And then there’s always going to be a little drop off. And that’s yeah.

Once you know that that’s it’s part of the process. You sort of give yourself a bit of a bit of a rest mentally. And there’s no shame in coming and going, fuck, my back’s a bit crooked.

Like, yeah, we just do a bit of Pilates and it’s OK.

[James] (25:39 – 25:40)
And I’ll be OK one day.

[Steve] (25:40 – 25:44)
Yeah. As long as you do something like that. That’s my motto.

Even if you just walk for five, 10 minutes, like.

[James] (25:44 – 25:49)
And we’ve had plenty of days like that where I’ve walked in and gone. I’m pretty ratted today. And you’re going, that’s right.

You’re here.

[Robbie] (25:49 – 25:54)
I was just about to say the most powerful bit about it, though, is that you haven’t let yourself down.

[James] (25:54 – 25:56)
Because if he didn’t exist. Yes.

[Robbie] (25:56 – 25:57)
And you felt ratchet.

[James] (25:57 – 25:59)
I would just stay at home. Oh, fuck this.

[Robbie] (25:59 – 26:01)
But now you’ve got someone that you don’t let down.

[James] (26:02 – 26:06)
Yeah, that’s right. That relationship. I’ve gone home.

I really want to be. Now I’ve got a training session today.

[Steve] (26:06 – 26:39)
Yeah. And to like your point, Robbie, like the accountability. Anyone that like anything I’m saying, anyone can type into Google and you can get a Pilates workout.

You can get there’s more shit in it than it’s. The power is in the accountability and doing it. So, yeah, and that’s that’s the good thing if you can team up.

And much like, say, for example, if I’m wanting to invest in my future with you guys, I’ll sort of sit around the end. But if I’ve got a meeting with yourself, Robbie, or even just your conversations, it makes me start to get some deadlines in my head. And I’m like, what do you get moving?

The property’s going up. I’ve got to start investing here. I’ll start investing in crypto.

[Robbie] (26:39 – 26:40)
When’s a good time to buy?

[Steve] (26:40 – 26:41)
Yesterday, mate.

[Robbie] (26:41 – 26:44)
James is talking about crypto. I’m not a crypto guy. You’re not a crypto guy?

[James] (26:45 – 26:45)
No, no, no, no.

[Robbie] (26:46 – 26:54)
I work too hard for my money to have fucking a tweet by Donald Trump or Elon Musk or Vladimir Putin change my finance and I’ll fucking do a correction.

[James] (26:54 – 26:54)
Mate, thanks.

[Robbie] (26:54 – 27:02)
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. I’m loving this, by the way.

Is there a favorite body part you like working on or do you feel as if you’ve got more expertise in one or the other?

[James] (27:03 – 27:04)
You might need to censor this part.

[Steve] (27:08 – 28:13)
I don’t have a particular. I know there’s definitely, and I think it’s a good business model to, not that this is about business building, but to be niched in a certain particular spot, because like, say you do bang your shoulder up. That’s what I’m asking.

Yeah. And no, I don’t particularly. I like, I’ve got a bit of a overall strength and conditioning background that I just bring to the table.

And it’s my nicheness would be, like I said, I’m not an orthodox sort of therapist and it’s a bit more free flowing coming in. And if not anything, it’s, you know, community welfare looking after the person. And, you know, they might come in with, like I said, the tiniest thing.

We could just walk for five minutes, have a chat and see what it’s like and how you’re going. And that’s more powerful at the time than it is to follow my black and white program to do 20 pushups. Yeah.

You know what I mean? So you’re adaptive. Yeah, adaptive and instinctive.

Probably my thing, biggest thing is like, you know, you can know all the methods. I think it’s a young quote or whatever, but at the end of the day, you’re working with a human that might need different care at different times. So I think the psychology of it is a big, powerful thing to which, yeah.

[Robbie] (28:13 – 28:45)
Do you like working with, you know, there’s the cause of the pain, but like, let’s go upstream and find out what’s going on. Yeah, I’ve just been amazed as my injuries have evolved over the years. Yeah.

The interconnectedness of the body just continues to amaze me. You know, I sit with a relevant professional sitting as all, you know, the reason why you’re feeling this particular way is that’s where you’ve got the pain, but it’s actually coming from way back up here and they just map it all out for me. Do you enjoy discovering that and then also passing it on?

[Steve] (28:45 – 28:55)
A big thing with like, to your point, and because a lot of the time, if you can’t, say, for example, let’s say your elbow joint and a lot of people will get one.

[Robbie] (28:55 – 28:56)
One of the things that’s OK.

[Steve] (28:57 – 28:59)
There’s not many, but you’ve chosen one that’s not.

[Robbie] (28:59 – 28:59)
Touch wood.

[Steve] (28:59 – 29:54)
Yeah, well, commonly for a lot of blokes, they will get like, say, a tennis elbow, which is on the back of the elbow and whatnot. But little do people know, usually that will stem from a shoulder instability. If they’re overhead, the elbow joint has to act in a way that it doesn’t normally.

And that can happen throughout the whole of the body. So it is, to your point, it’s important to not just look at the elbow, treat the elbow, you have to look upstream, downstream. And then you can sort of usually when I do some physical assessments, it’ll highlight to the patient that they’re like, oh, shit, that actually makes sense because I actually can’t get my shoulder up to that point.

And I feel my elbow doing the work when I’m, you know, and it sort of makes sense to the patients and gives them that holistic approach to it. And then the narrative you get out of it is a bit more concise. It’s like if you went to a mechanic and they’re like, oh, you just need to replace this part.

But if they give you a bit of a run through and you go, oh, yeah, that makes sense. Well, if you don’t replace it, this is what this will blow up.

[Robbie] (29:55 – 29:55)
Yeah, exactly. Right.

[Steve] (29:55 – 29:56)
Yeah, yeah.

[Robbie] (29:56 – 29:59)
Yeah, exactly. What would you say the I’m just.

00:29:58.290 –> 00:30:00.450
I’m just thinking of all these questions as we’re going along.

00:30:00.690 –> 00:30:04.010
What would be the most common ailment that people come.

00:30:04.010 –> 00:30:06.130
That veterans come to you with? It would.

00:30:06.130 –> 00:30:07.530
It would have to be the lower back.

00:30:07.530 –> 00:30:08.050
And I think.

00:30:08.610 –> 00:30:15.210
And that would be probably to the veteran side of it in particularly army,

00:30:15.210 –> 00:30:15.810
the pack.

00:30:15.890 –> 00:30:17.370
Pack marching that you had to do.

00:30:17.370 –> 00:30:20.130
And depending on the amount of years and what you did with the service.

00:30:20.130 –> 00:30:21.650
But even like the.

00:30:21.650 –> 00:30:24.690
The guys that are in the tanks and whatever else, it’s always commonly the

00:30:24.690 –> 00:30:26.890
lower backs got a quicker degeneration.

00:30:26.890 –> 00:30:30.650
Yeah. And that’s so much compressive force over so much time.

00:30:31.050 –> 00:30:32.490
Like we’re saying pack marching.

00:30:32.490 –> 00:30:34.690
So the lower back is probably the most common.

00:30:34.690 –> 00:30:38.130
Then from that it would just Be your general sort of hip, shoulders and

00:30:38.130 –> 00:30:38.850
knees type thing.

00:30:38.850 –> 00:30:43.210
But yeah, yeah, the back is the big one I would say and in saying that

00:30:43.530 –> 00:30:45.610
obviously that is particular to veterans.

00:30:45.770 –> 00:30:50.230
The mass majority of us are going to have a bit of back pain, just not as

00:30:50.230 –> 00:30:51.790
degenerated as quick for sure.

00:30:51.790 –> 00:30:56.670
So yeah, one of the trends that I saw, I think it’s my second time to

00:30:56.670 –> 00:30:58.734
Afghanistan so it would have been like 2009.

00:30:58.926 –> 00:31:00.750
2009, 2010.

00:31:02.110 –> 00:31:04.950
There’s a gym set up in the, in the Taran cow thing there.

00:31:04.950 –> 00:31:08.830
It was just full of weights and full of all the compound exercises.

00:31:08.830 –> 00:31:09.950
That’s you know, traditional.

00:31:09.950 –> 00:31:13.350
Yeah. But there was a select group of people within the special ops task

00:31:13.350 –> 00:31:16.630
group that weren’t using that and they were doing more yoga based stuff.

00:31:16.630 –> 00:31:17.350
Oh yeah, yeah.

00:31:17.350 –> 00:31:21.610
And I, I have done a number of yoga class over the years for a few years.

00:31:22.890 –> 00:31:26.330
But yeah, just talk to us about the, the benefits that you’ve seen with the

00:31:26.330 –> 00:31:30.330
yoga, the Pilates, you know, when you’re a sledgehammer bullet are trying to

00:31:30.330 –> 00:31:35.250
go sort of go sort of bloke and certainly now the bloke, the mates of mine,

00:31:35.250 –> 00:31:38.170
mostly clients I must say that are still working in the SOCOM space.

00:31:38.250 –> 00:31:44.930
Yeah. They say that that more modernized, advanced, softer all over body

00:31:44.930 –> 00:31:49.450
strength flexibility training is just as important as the strength stuff for

00:31:49.450 –> 00:31:53.890
sure. Like and that you know, we tend to have a bit of an old school

00:31:53.890 –> 00:31:57.970
methodology especially the older vets that was like go in bang and clang.

00:31:57.970 –> 00:31:58.810
Don’t worry about it.

00:31:58.810 –> 00:32:00.970
Just you know, max out on your squats and.

00:32:00.970 –> 00:32:01.490
And even.

00:32:01.649 –> 00:32:02.850
Nothing wrong with being strong.

00:32:03.010 –> 00:32:05.090
That’s. It can’t go wrong getting strong.

00:32:05.090 –> 00:32:06.690
That’s. Sorry, I just butchered your.

00:32:08.530 –> 00:32:10.770
I’ve remembered this one but it’s not even close.

00:32:11.370 –> 00:32:15.050
But what he said in saying that like it is important to deload.

00:32:15.050 –> 00:32:19.130
Let the joints actually go through full range and have the tissue have that

00:32:19.130 –> 00:32:22.970
full extensibility and as we’re talking about because you can go through

00:32:22.970 –> 00:32:27.850
these linear sort of movements and they’re not as practical to your real,

00:32:27.930 –> 00:32:30.690
real life sort of settings type thing and you know you’ll get good at a back

00:32:30.690 –> 00:32:34.290
swaddle pushing that way or pulling that way whereas we’re trying to get up

00:32:34.290 –> 00:32:37.530
overhead or reach behind your back and what you’ll go through with those

00:32:37.530 –> 00:32:38.490
Pilates movements.

00:32:38.690 –> 00:32:41.330
Yeah. If you think, if you think you’re strong in the gym and if you are

00:32:41.330 –> 00:32:43.170
strong in the gym, try and do a Pilates session.

00:32:43.170 –> 00:32:43.850
Yeah, that’s right.

00:32:43.850 –> 00:32:45.890
It’ll make the strongest blokes and ladies.

00:32:45.890 –> 00:32:49.370
Yeah. It’ll make you feel like this, you know, and if you’ve got a bag of

00:32:49.370 –> 00:32:51.370
groceries or something in the back of the car and you’ve got.

00:32:51.370 –> 00:32:53.370
Need to reach over and then get back for it in this.

00:32:53.370 –> 00:32:55.170
No wonder people tear their back.

00:32:55.250 –> 00:32:55.810
That’s right.

00:32:55.970 –> 00:32:57.610
And it can happen in the simplest of things.

00:32:57.610 –> 00:33:00.930
You do bloody, you know, deadlifted, the cows come home.

00:33:00.930 –> 00:33:01.370
That’s right.

00:33:01.370 –> 00:33:05.490
But a simple bloody 8,9 kilos of groceries on a slightly different angle,

00:33:05.570 –> 00:33:06.210
you’re toast.

00:33:06.210 –> 00:33:06.690
That’s right.

00:33:06.690 –> 00:33:12.020
Yeah. And you haven’t adapted to that position and built quality of tissue

00:33:12.020 –> 00:33:12.580
and strength.

00:33:12.580 –> 00:33:16.100
And so although you are, like we said, you’re really strong going linearly

00:33:16.100 –> 00:33:20.100
and you could move a ball that way, but we’d rotate you, twist it down that

00:33:20.100 –> 00:33:22.020
way. The body’s never twisted that way.

00:33:22.020 –> 00:33:22.380
It hasn’t.

00:33:22.380 –> 00:33:23.100
It’s unfamiliar.

00:33:23.100 –> 00:33:25.340
You put a little bit of load on it in that position then.

00:33:25.900 –> 00:33:27.300
And that’s a common one, you know.

00:33:27.300 –> 00:33:31.140
But even to my context, when I was younger, I remember the back pain so

00:33:31.140 –> 00:33:34.020
complex. I even picked up a sock and my back’s.

00:33:34.180 –> 00:33:35.020
Oh, that’s weird.

00:33:35.020 –> 00:33:35.620
And I’ve just done.

00:33:36.580 –> 00:33:39.460
Two weeks ago, off, I was deadlifting 200 kilos and now.

00:33:39.540 –> 00:33:42.940
But yeah, and it’s a complex thing, I guess, but it’s quite often like you,

00:33:42.940 –> 00:33:44.500
you know, you see one of some.

00:33:46.660 –> 00:33:49.459
Some of the big bloody buff of gym boys in our workspaces.

00:33:49.460 –> 00:33:51.820
I’m like, oh, what happened to your back? Yeah, yeah.

00:33:51.820 –> 00:33:53.460
Oh, I bent down to pick up my kid’s sock.

00:33:53.460 –> 00:33:56.660
Yeah. And it was that bit there because you’re on a different plane in a

00:33:56.660 –> 00:33:58.660
different position that you haven’t really trained for.

00:33:58.660 –> 00:34:01.100
It’s just been the linear dad lifts 150 kilos.

00:34:01.100 –> 00:34:01.940
But I picked up a.

00:34:02.280 –> 00:34:03.800
Picked off my kid’s bag and that was it.

00:34:03.800 –> 00:34:04.440
Pop dang.

00:34:04.440 –> 00:34:05.960
Gone. Yeah, yeah.

00:34:05.960 –> 00:34:08.480
And yeah, it’s important to go through full range with.

00:34:08.480 –> 00:34:10.240
With load and get yourself.

00:34:10.240 –> 00:34:13.480
Which you do get in Pilates, yoga and even general sort of stretching.

00:34:13.480 –> 00:34:15.880
Yeah, we spent the first six months doing that.

00:34:15.960 –> 00:34:17.560
Yeah. And that’s what I was saying before.

00:34:17.560 –> 00:34:19.080
It’s that first six months of.

00:34:19.080 –> 00:34:23.880
Yeah, no, no weights, like very little weight, deloading, getting the

00:34:23.880 –> 00:34:27.320
flexibility, getting the whole body moving, not just those basic

00:34:27.320 –> 00:34:29.000
straightforward movements, you know, and.

00:34:29.200 –> 00:34:30.680
And also, you know, back.

00:34:30.680 –> 00:34:34.480
It’s that psychological as well, where you’re increasing the resilience and

00:34:34.480 –> 00:34:35.120
of your.

00:34:35.120 –> 00:34:36.400
Of your pain tolerance.

00:34:36.400 –> 00:34:40.520
Yeah. What we’re saying before, you know, classic example was when, you

00:34:40.520 –> 00:34:42.360
know, if I’d feel A bit tight.

00:34:42.360 –> 00:34:44.600
One day I’ll go in and say, yeah, I’m really sore.

00:34:44.600 –> 00:34:47.800
So he’d start doing needles, you know, and the classic example at the start,

00:34:47.800 –> 00:34:51.400
like going back 12 months ago, we put some needles in my lower back and then

00:34:51.400 –> 00:34:56.000
as soon as it hit that nerve, it was like my whole body would seize up

00:34:56.820 –> 00:35:01.100
because my brain has said I felt this pain before when I originally done my

00:35:01.100 –> 00:35:02.660
back. And this is bad.

00:35:02.740 –> 00:35:06.780
So your whole body naturally just goes into, into protection mode.

00:35:06.780 –> 00:35:07.260
Yeah, yeah.

00:35:07.260 –> 00:35:11.540
And it’s like, yeah, and we’ve got to keep trying, keep doing, keep doing,

00:35:11.780 –> 00:35:14.500
keep taking those chips off, off the sculpture.

00:35:14.660 –> 00:35:16.620
And now you can do needles on my back.

00:35:16.620 –> 00:35:18.220
And I’ll be like, yep, that’s, that’s it.

00:35:18.220 –> 00:35:19.540
It’s, it’s hitting that nerve.

00:35:19.540 –> 00:35:20.500
I can feel that now.

00:35:20.660 –> 00:35:23.460
And now it’s like that that mentality has changed.

00:35:23.460 –> 00:35:28.500
And you got your cognitive pain, cognizant pain, and then you’ve got your,

00:35:28.500 –> 00:35:32.980
you know, your uncognitive pain where your brain goes like reactively

00:35:32.980 –> 00:35:34.220
without you even knowing it.

00:35:34.220 –> 00:35:34.980
That’s hurting.

00:35:35.140 –> 00:35:36.220
So stop what you’re doing.

00:35:36.220 –> 00:35:36.740
Yeah, exactly.

00:35:36.740 –> 00:35:40.420
You know, and it’s just telling that brain unconsciously that it’s okay.

00:35:40.420 –> 00:35:42.100
It’s not, not that bad.

00:35:42.260 –> 00:35:44.380
Because of course, when you’re doing your strength and conditioning, you’ll

00:35:44.380 –> 00:35:47.700
be saying to your clients, get a mind muscle connection happening there.

00:35:47.780 –> 00:35:48.300
That’s right.

00:35:48.300 –> 00:35:50.980
Feel the squeeze, visualize what’s going on.

00:35:50.980 –> 00:35:53.800
Contraction and expansion in the, in the muscles there.

00:35:53.800 –> 00:35:55.040
You’re going to get a better workout.

00:35:55.600 –> 00:35:57.280
Sometimes you want to be able to separate that.

00:35:57.360 –> 00:35:59.400
Yeah. And the, the evidence is in line with that.

00:35:59.400 –> 00:36:02.520
The actual, funnily enough, particularly in the bodybuilding world as well,

00:36:02.520 –> 00:36:04.160
with the mind muscle connection.

00:36:04.160 –> 00:36:09.400
And then people that can recruit their tissue better, you recruit more motor

00:36:09.400 –> 00:36:12.800
units and more fibers come together when you’re lifting the weight, when you

00:36:12.800 –> 00:36:16.120
get that mind muscle connection and therefore you get greater hypertrophy,

00:36:16.120 –> 00:36:16.840
greater strength.

00:36:16.840 –> 00:36:19.480
So it is super important to have that mind muscle connection.

00:36:19.480 –> 00:36:23.550
And yeah, and particularly, like I was saying in the pain side of thing, the

00:36:24.510 –> 00:36:28.990
seeing yourself do it and getting the feedback to your brain and the

00:36:28.990 –> 00:36:32.790
subconscious autonomic nervous system is sort of going, hey, actually it’s,

00:36:32.790 –> 00:36:34.270
it’s safe to bend over because.

00:36:34.510 –> 00:36:38.150
Well, I’ve been doing it for six, six months and I’ve, I’ve picked up 100

00:36:38.150 –> 00:36:38.870
kilos off the ground.

00:36:38.870 –> 00:36:39.750
I can bend over.

00:36:39.750 –> 00:36:42.750
Whereas initially, people at the start will have a really abrasive.

00:36:42.830 –> 00:36:46.270
Yes. Fear based, sort of sort of brace up their knees.

00:36:46.270 –> 00:36:46.910
Yeah, yeah.

00:36:47.870 –> 00:36:49.070
They don’t want the body pain again.

00:36:49.070 –> 00:36:50.680
And it’s the brakes are on with their body.

00:36:50.680 –> 00:36:53.120
It’s like, okay, well this isn’t safe.

00:36:53.280 –> 00:36:56.200
We’re not safe to do this because the last time we did this I was in that

00:36:56.200 –> 00:36:56.800
much pain.

00:36:57.520 –> 00:37:01.720
And so it’s just a slow down regulation obviously quality of tissue and you

00:37:01.720 –> 00:37:02.760
get stronger and whatever else.

00:37:02.760 –> 00:37:08.400
But then that mental, subconscious and cognizant pain really does matter.

00:37:08.720 –> 00:37:12.000
And that’s in a lot of general sort of things in life I suppose too.

00:37:12.400 –> 00:37:14.640
It doesn’t happen overnight, right? No, that’s right.

00:37:14.640 –> 00:37:20.840
It’s like I say for myself, it’s probably taken at least six months of

00:37:20.840 –> 00:37:27.200
repetitive re exploring that same pain area to be able to get retrained my

00:37:27.200 –> 00:37:31.880
brain and again I’m not completely out of pain, none of us will be entirely.

00:37:32.120 –> 00:37:34.920
But it’s just again raising that threshold.

00:37:35.640 –> 00:37:36.520
It’s a forever game.

00:37:36.520 –> 00:37:37.960
Almost like with your strength training.

00:37:38.600 –> 00:37:39.880
There’s no end game.

00:37:40.520 –> 00:37:43.880
The trick is to stay in the game and keep at it, keep consistent, keep at

00:37:43.880 –> 00:37:46.280
it. You’re never out of it, you know what I mean? Even when we’re 80 to 90,

00:37:46.940 –> 00:37:48.780
just got to keep chipping out every day.

00:37:48.780 –> 00:37:49.980
Consistency is your best friend.

00:37:50.060 –> 00:37:51.660
The longer you wait, the harder it becomes.

00:37:51.660 –> 00:37:52.380
And that’s right.

00:37:52.380 –> 00:37:55.700
Yeah. And you go away for a couple of weeks, you, you know, go overseas,

00:37:55.700 –> 00:37:58.300
holiday. But yeah, a couple of weeks you come back and you’re back into it

00:37:58.300 –> 00:38:01.740
again. You walk around sore ass from a dom’s point of view.

00:38:01.740 –> 00:38:03.780
Yeah. Then that’s gone and you’re back into it again.

00:38:03.780 –> 00:38:05.100
Yeah, exactly, yeah.

00:38:05.660 –> 00:38:07.820
Talk to me about your view on supplements.

00:38:08.300 –> 00:38:12.380
Supplements, yeah, creatine protein, you know.

00:38:12.460 –> 00:38:13.100
Yeah, yeah.

00:38:13.100 –> 00:38:14.800
Bryce chain amino acids and stuff like that.

00:38:14.800 –> 00:38:15.920
Yeah, for sure, for sure.

00:38:15.920 –> 00:38:22.640
So with, with the research, probably the top biggest rewards you can get, I

00:38:22.640 –> 00:38:24.600
guess like depending on what your goals are in that.

00:38:24.600 –> 00:38:27.760
But creatine is probably the most studied one that’s been around for like 30

00:38:27.760 –> 00:38:30.359
years and there’s like thousands of studies on it.

00:38:30.359 –> 00:38:33.200
But it’s also showing a lot of cognition performance.

00:38:33.280 –> 00:38:38.400
So you’ve got and particularly say with people that might have a bit of

00:38:38.400 –> 00:38:41.710
brain damage which can happen in the forces like the little micro traumas

00:38:41.710 –> 00:38:43.430
that you can get with the jolting whatnot.

00:38:43.430 –> 00:38:47.670
So creatine’s shown to help with neurogenesis and brain cognition.

00:38:48.470 –> 00:38:51.790
Obviously supplementing with protein, whether you get that or get it for

00:38:51.790 –> 00:38:55.750
your diet is like crucial because we have a certain amount of protein

00:38:55.750 –> 00:38:58.870
turnover every day that you need to upkeep, especially if you’re having a

00:38:58.870 –> 00:39:03.190
crack at it and then the one that’s probably the biggest one for performance

00:39:03.350 –> 00:39:07.960
is just actually caffeine I think like with the data offer and branch change

00:39:07.960 –> 00:39:11.640
or negative, positive like so increase performance basically.

00:39:11.640 –> 00:39:15.240
So if you’re looking to max out on your lift or you know, get an increase in

00:39:15.240 –> 00:39:18.840
your focus or output because it stimulates your nervous system basically.

00:39:19.720 –> 00:39:20.760
And then to that there.

00:39:20.760 –> 00:39:23.240
And then there’s like emerging stuff which is sort of.

00:39:24.600 –> 00:39:26.520
Doctors are starting to delve into.

00:39:26.520 –> 00:39:30.440
It’s a bit of a gray area which is like the peptides sort of thing.

00:39:30.840 –> 00:39:33.760
For some reason I don’t know what I was looking at when I was on the piss or

00:39:33.760 –> 00:39:36.280
something one weekend I’m like getting these bp.

00:39:39.020 –> 00:39:40.100
Someone would have spoken about it.

00:39:40.100 –> 00:39:42.460
The phones listened, the ran the random algorithm.

00:39:42.780 –> 00:39:45.780
Oh, what’s this? And then tomorrow’s like oh, my doctor spoke to me about

00:39:45.780 –> 00:39:48.980
that. So yeah, there is some emerging peptide stuff.

00:39:48.980 –> 00:39:50.620
Yeah. It’s the funny thing because it’s such.

00:39:52.140 –> 00:39:55.060
And it makes me wonder why there probably isn’t more of a push.

00:39:55.060 –> 00:39:57.100
But I think at the end of the day it.

00:39:57.260 –> 00:39:57.820
They can’t.

00:39:57.820 –> 00:40:00.660
They’re a natural occurring thing in your body and you can’t patent them.

00:40:00.660 –> 00:40:01.180
So the.

00:40:01.420 –> 00:40:05.650
I don’t think they’re ever going to be a, you know, a big farmer’s not going

00:40:05.650 –> 00:40:08.410
to fund it because there’s no profit because you know, you could start your

00:40:08.410 –> 00:40:11.970
business and then create your own peptides but they are like this gray area

00:40:11.970 –> 00:40:13.090
because they’re not a hormone.

00:40:13.490 –> 00:40:17.530
But they do help your body produce better hormones that help you recover and

00:40:17.530 –> 00:40:20.530
so you’re organically growing your own hormones.

00:40:20.850 –> 00:40:24.770
Basically you inject it and it goes to your pituitary gland and then you get

00:40:24.770 –> 00:40:28.450
an increase in whatever it is, growth hormone, collagen deposits, all these

00:40:29.100 –> 00:40:31.580
crazily good things for a rehab standpoint.

00:40:31.580 –> 00:40:36.340
Right. And I have had patients where the doctors are starting to branch into

00:40:36.340 –> 00:40:39.340
it and prescribe it and that’s like you guys can’t as eps.

00:40:39.340 –> 00:40:40.580
No, no, we’ve got to be.

00:40:40.580 –> 00:40:45.380
Yeah. There’s a certain amount that the doctors are allowed to and then a

00:40:45.380 –> 00:40:45.860
couple of them.

00:40:45.860 –> 00:40:49.580
I think it might be like hypermorelin and maybe BPC and stuff like that so

00:40:50.140 –> 00:40:51.620
they can start to play of it.

00:40:51.620 –> 00:40:55.380
But then you know, when you do see it happen, it’s pretty powerful stuff.

00:40:55.380 –> 00:41:00.270
So. So you’ve seen it in action? Yeah, I’ve had probably like a good handful

00:41:00.270 –> 00:41:04.470
of my patients even currently now, but have tried them out and they are

00:41:04.470 –> 00:41:06.070
pretty groundbreaking stuff.

00:41:06.070 –> 00:41:12.550
I think but yeah, and I think the only reason it is sort of stigmatized a

00:41:12.550 –> 00:41:15.790
bit because it’s in that Obviously back in 2016 you had resident that got

00:41:15.790 –> 00:41:18.430
done with the peptide scandals.

00:41:18.430 –> 00:41:20.390
And that’s my footy team too.

00:41:20.710 –> 00:41:21.590
Thanks for bringing that up.

00:41:21.590 –> 00:41:22.550
Yeah. The Bombers.

00:41:22.550 –> 00:41:23.270
Yeah, yeah.

00:41:23.910 –> 00:41:25.070
So nothing to see here.

00:41:25.070 –> 00:41:26.070
They had a great weekend.

00:41:26.070 –> 00:41:30.090
Yeah. But so a lot of that’s stuff like, you know, your testosterone that

00:41:30.090 –> 00:41:34.370
they get lumped into performance enhancing drugs where it’s the actual heart

00:41:34.370 –> 00:41:36.930
of them are very therapeutic and that’s how they all start.

00:41:37.170 –> 00:41:41.050
It’s just like obviously athletes and performance and bodybuilders figure

00:41:41.050 –> 00:41:42.850
out, hey, this is going to make me bigger and stronger.

00:41:42.850 –> 00:41:44.810
So. Because it helps a little bit.

00:41:44.810 –> 00:41:45.410
Yeah, yeah.

00:41:45.410 –> 00:41:46.530
They’ll help you recover quicker.

00:41:46.530 –> 00:41:48.930
And then also with like testosterone and.

00:41:49.010 –> 00:41:51.450
Because they see it as a performance enhancing job.

00:41:51.450 –> 00:41:52.050
Yeah, that’s right.

00:41:52.050 –> 00:41:55.250
Yeah. And it’s, you know when you’re saying before about big pharma taking

00:41:55.250 –> 00:41:59.830
over, the only one peptide which people don’t realize or actually started

00:41:59.830 –> 00:42:01.990
off as peptides is things like the weight loss drugs.

00:42:02.150 –> 00:42:04.550
Yeah, you know, that’s fine.

00:42:04.550 –> 00:42:06.630
Why? Because there’s a lot of money to be made.

00:42:06.710 –> 00:42:10.510
Yeah. People want to get skinny quicker or lose weight without having to put

00:42:10.510 –> 00:42:11.230
down the fork.

00:42:11.230 –> 00:42:16.510
Yeah. So people, you know, things like ozempic and semi glutide and stuff

00:42:16.510 –> 00:42:18.310
are now a lot more.

00:42:18.470 –> 00:42:20.390
They’re becoming a lot more normalized.

00:42:20.470 –> 00:42:21.190
Yeah, that’s right.

00:42:21.190 –> 00:42:25.310
Yeah. If you, if you told people that is a peptide, you know, then.

00:42:25.310 –> 00:42:29.830
And then talk to people about other, you know, peptides like PPC that you

00:42:29.830 –> 00:42:30.350
were just saying.

00:42:30.350 –> 00:42:32.350
Yeah. You wouldn’t think it’d be in the same boat.

00:42:32.350 –> 00:42:34.550
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:42:34.550 –> 00:42:35.990
No, it’s super interesting.

00:42:35.990 –> 00:42:37.990
The. And like.

00:42:37.990 –> 00:42:40.550
Yeah, again, I sort of rack my brain a little bit because it does.

00:42:40.790 –> 00:42:45.030
Obviously in the in vitro studies when you read them, they like have these,

00:42:45.110 –> 00:42:46.630
you know, enormous growth with.

00:42:46.630 –> 00:42:50.200
They’ll usually use a rat studies and whatever and they might cut the leg of

00:42:50.200 –> 00:42:53.680
the rat and the healing rates are like crazy on the rats with wound healing

00:42:53.680 –> 00:42:56.360
and tendon healing and all that sort of side of things.

00:42:56.360 –> 00:42:58.000
So. And even I talk to.

00:42:58.640 –> 00:43:01.520
There’s one bloke I would sort of brush shoulders with that is a surgeon,

00:43:01.680 –> 00:43:04.000
hopefully doesn’t listen to this after this convo, but.

00:43:04.000 –> 00:43:04.560
No, I’m joking.

00:43:04.560 –> 00:43:05.320
You can bleep it out.

00:43:05.320 –> 00:43:08.560
Yeah. And he was like, he’s right into it.

00:43:08.560 –> 00:43:12.000
And he’s had a few patients that have gotten on them, post their surgeries,

00:43:12.000 –> 00:43:14.280
whatever they’re doing, and then he’s like, yeah, it’s going to be the way

00:43:14.280 –> 00:43:15.160
of the future for sure.

00:43:15.160 –> 00:43:19.200
But the only reason doctors really and we can’t go full ball and you know,

00:43:19.200 –> 00:43:23.480
prescribe it out is because there isn’t that large scale study of safety and

00:43:23.720 –> 00:43:27.160
efficacy. But in saying that, I don’t think that’s ever really going to

00:43:27.160 –> 00:43:30.320
happen because if I was to fund it, I’m not really going to get a profit.

00:43:30.320 –> 00:43:33.760
It’s just going to benefit humanity and if it stays small, it’ll stay small.

00:43:33.760 –> 00:43:36.080
Therefore how do the large scale studies get done? That’s right.

00:43:36.080 –> 00:43:36.600
Yeah. Yeah.

00:43:36.600 –> 00:43:39.920
So and that’s what gives the backing for a doctor to prescribe it because

00:43:39.920 –> 00:43:43.600
they know, hey look, there’s been 10,000 studies and I can safely give this

00:43:43.600 –> 00:43:43.920
to you.

00:43:43.920 –> 00:43:46.720
Yeah. Cause their biggest thing’s not to harm you with something they don’t

00:43:46.720 –> 00:43:48.400
really of course know could or not.

00:43:48.400 –> 00:43:50.040
So it is experimental in some sense.

00:43:50.040 –> 00:43:53.400
So that’s what I looked at when I saw that thing come up on my feed, on the

00:43:53.400 –> 00:43:54.720
Instagram or Facebook, whatever it was.

00:43:54.720 –> 00:44:00.479
I’m like, it’s just all about connective tissue, ligaments and things like

00:44:00.479 –> 00:44:03.960
that. As far as like that’s what the BPC focuses in on.

00:44:04.520 –> 00:44:08.560
I’m like fuck, how can that be bad? That’s not muscle building, that’s the

00:44:08.560 –> 00:44:09.960
interconnective tissue stuff.

00:44:10.360 –> 00:44:14.760
It doesn’t necessarily give you super physiological muscle or growth but you

00:44:14.760 –> 00:44:17.920
do get like, you’re saying like you get an increase in blood flow and

00:44:17.920 –> 00:44:21.680
mitochondrial density and capillary density to the damaged area.

00:44:21.760 –> 00:44:22.360
Yeah. Right.

00:44:22.360 –> 00:44:25.280
So like you get an increase in nutrients applied to the area.

00:44:25.360 –> 00:44:29.440
It’s anti inflammatory, it, it also neuroprotective, probably good for your

00:44:29.440 –> 00:44:30.160
heart and whatever else.

00:44:30.160 –> 00:44:33.720
So there’s all these crazy benefits you can get from those type of things.

00:44:33.720 –> 00:44:34.720
But I’m not, you know.

00:44:34.720 –> 00:44:35.240
Yeah, yeah.

00:44:35.240 –> 00:44:37.080
Obviously the data is lacking so I’m not going to say.

00:44:37.080 –> 00:44:41.600
Yeah, I just was just interested in your, in your view viewpoint.

00:44:41.600 –> 00:44:43.480
Yeah. And all these questions have been non scripted.

00:44:43.480 –> 00:44:44.320
Right. I’m just like.

00:44:44.800 –> 00:44:45.800
And thanks for asking.

00:44:45.800 –> 00:44:49.560
Answering anecdotally, I’ve seen really good results and that’s anecdotal

00:44:49.560 –> 00:44:54.440
and I can’t put numbers or research behind it but I have seen some positive

00:44:54.440 –> 00:44:55.040
results with it.

00:44:55.040 –> 00:44:57.840
And then, but in saying that there’s probably the outliers that have had

00:44:57.840 –> 00:45:00.560
zero, you know, they’re like, I don’t think that really helped but.

00:45:00.720 –> 00:45:04.880
And that could be, I bet there’s a bunch of people like I have, my body has

00:45:04.880 –> 00:45:06.320
an aversion to creatine.

00:45:06.320 –> 00:45:09.440
Yeah. Turns it into creatine, which just makes me go to the toilet all the

00:45:09.440 –> 00:45:10.320
time. Oh yeah.

00:45:12.080 –> 00:45:14.180
My kidneys in red renal gland gets smashed.

00:45:14.180 –> 00:45:14.860
Yeah, yeah.

00:45:14.940 –> 00:45:18.380
So because I hadn’t had it for like 15 years and I’m like, oh, I might jump

00:45:18.380 –> 00:45:19.340
on the creatine again.

00:45:19.340 –> 00:45:21.420
Got my blood test done, which I’ll do every three months.

00:45:21.420 –> 00:45:24.980
My doctor’s like, what the going on with your kidneys? I’m like, I haven’t

00:45:24.980 –> 00:45:26.380
really been drinking that much this quarter.

00:45:28.060 –> 00:45:30.100
So then he goes, pull back and I’ll pull back.

00:45:30.100 –> 00:45:32.540
And it’s come back into safe levels again because everyone’s different.

00:45:32.540 –> 00:45:35.860
Yeah. Did you have any side effects other than that? No, I just want to go

00:45:35.860 –> 00:45:36.580
to all the time.

00:45:36.580 –> 00:45:38.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:45:38.630 –> 00:45:39.190
And I’m not.

00:45:39.190 –> 00:45:42.790
Yeah. Obviously I’m not a doctor, but usually with those type of things you

00:45:42.790 –> 00:45:46.590
will get like say for example, people that do TRT or that you will get like

00:45:46.590 –> 00:45:48.790
an increase in some blood.

00:45:49.270 –> 00:45:51.670
But whether that’s significant or not, I’m not too sure.

00:45:51.670 –> 00:45:56.190
But yeah, yeah, it’s definitely like say for example, if you’re doing trt,

00:45:56.190 –> 00:45:59.350
you’re going to get increase in cholesterols, blood pressures and stuff like

00:45:59.350 –> 00:46:03.950
that. And it’s not so much blood pressure isn’t good to increase, but there

00:46:03.950 –> 00:46:07.350
is this skewing of normal bloods that will probably likely happen.

00:46:07.920 –> 00:46:10.000
Whether that’s detrimental or not, it’s, you know.

00:46:10.080 –> 00:46:13.280
Yeah. One little thing, one little last bit of thing I want to pass on is

00:46:15.360 –> 00:46:18.680
when you get out and you’re on the DBA thing and you’ve got some accepted

00:46:18.680 –> 00:46:21.080
conditions and you find that awesome DBA doctor like we have.

00:46:21.080 –> 00:46:22.400
Yes. Here on the Gold Coast.

00:46:22.720 –> 00:46:25.280
I go there as a 52 year old guy.

00:46:25.360 –> 00:46:29.280
Ever since the day I got out 12 years ago, I’ve been getting my bloods done

00:46:29.280 –> 00:46:30.360
at least once a year.

00:46:30.360 –> 00:46:31.280
Oh yeah, yeah.

00:46:31.280 –> 00:46:34.640
So and I’m just talking about markers and trends and things like that.

00:46:34.640 –> 00:46:37.930
I mean, I’m sure you’re a fan, like, so if you’re able to go get them done.

00:46:38.010 –> 00:46:41.690
And it’s funded through, you know, the DBA program, which we’re all entitled

00:46:41.690 –> 00:46:45.530
to if you keep those sorts of injuries, just the peace of mind that it

00:46:45.530 –> 00:46:50.170
provides me as a guy is getting a bit older, that my markers are in check or

00:46:50.330 –> 00:46:53.130
I’ve changed my diet or I’m taking something different in that particular

00:46:53.130 –> 00:46:55.890
quarter. So I get it done every, every three months now I get my.

00:46:55.890 –> 00:46:56.730
Get my bloods done.

00:46:56.730 –> 00:47:01.010
Yeah. Whack a needle in my arm, you just know eating first thing in the

00:47:01.010 –> 00:47:03.570
morning, boom, give it to the doctor, go sit down and actually go through

00:47:03.570 –> 00:47:04.650
the scores and the markers.

00:47:05.550 –> 00:47:07.470
So much clarity and so much peace of mind.

00:47:07.470 –> 00:47:09.190
No, I think over the years as well.

00:47:09.190 –> 00:47:12.070
Yeah, I think that’s really good and I’d probably like highly recommend and

00:47:12.070 –> 00:47:15.230
I wish I did that when I was younger so you could see where you don’t give

00:47:15.230 –> 00:47:16.270
a. When you’re 25.

00:47:16.350 –> 00:47:17.430
Hangovers don’t exist.

00:47:17.430 –> 00:47:23.550
No, you go to rock up to work the next day, kill everyone else.

00:47:23.790 –> 00:47:25.790
Not like that when you’re 40s plus.

00:47:25.790 –> 00:47:27.470
Yeah, yeah, you’re not even 40 yet.

00:47:27.470 –> 00:47:28.430
That’s coming up soon.

00:47:28.670 –> 00:47:32.110
You wait till you’re over 40, you wait till you get to 50 in two weeks I’m

00:47:32.110 –> 00:47:32.710
going downhill.

00:47:32.710 –> 00:47:33.390
What a hangover.

00:47:34.190 –> 00:47:36.720
But yeah, I definitely want to implement implore to everybody that if you’re

00:47:36.720 –> 00:47:39.360
a veteran and you’re north of 40 and you’re out.

00:47:39.360 –> 00:47:40.640
I got out when I was 41.

00:47:40.800 –> 00:47:44.400
Go get your bloods every few months, every six months, every 12 months,

00:47:44.400 –> 00:47:45.040
whatever it is.

00:47:45.200 –> 00:47:48.160
But don’t put your head in the sand because will creep up on you.

00:47:48.320 –> 00:47:52.400
And I just know that all the different types of markers and glucose and

00:47:52.400 –> 00:47:55.160
blood pressure and you know, all the real technical stuff that comes out

00:47:55.160 –> 00:47:57.200
that I had to even Google what it was for.

00:47:57.200 –> 00:48:01.360
Yeah, I’m like so glad now that I know what my body’s doing molecularly.

00:48:01.600 –> 00:48:03.560
Yeah, yeah, I’m sure that’s a term but you know what I mean.

00:48:03.560 –> 00:48:04.080
Right, right.

00:48:04.240 –> 00:48:08.560
And to that at least you’re accruing evidence up over a long period of time

00:48:08.560 –> 00:48:12.440
and then if you feel off or something’s wrong, you can look at your own data

00:48:12.440 –> 00:48:13.880
and go, that’s really dropped down.

00:48:13.880 –> 00:48:16.320
Even though it’s not out of norm, I can try and push that up.

00:48:16.320 –> 00:48:19.600
And yeah, you’ve got your own data of evidence because everyone runs at a

00:48:19.600 –> 00:48:23.760
different norm ratio that just because you’re in range might not mean that

00:48:23.760 –> 00:48:24.320
you’re optimal.

00:48:24.320 –> 00:48:25.040
That’s right, yeah.

00:48:25.040 –> 00:48:27.040
Yeah, cool, mate, I’ve really enjoyed that.

00:48:27.040 –> 00:48:27.880
Let’s wrap it up lads.

00:48:27.880 –> 00:48:28.800
Yeah, thank you so much.

00:48:28.880 –> 00:48:30.400
No, thanks for having me on that.

00:48:31.400 –> 00:48:37.880
Like I said, I’ve just, I’ve just been Talking to my PT EP/brother in law.

00:48:38.440 –> 00:48:42.320
How the do I get this message out? You can train your way out of having to

00:48:42.320 –> 00:48:43.640
have a major surgery.

00:48:44.120 –> 00:48:46.840
Why not give it a go? Circumstances, you know.

00:48:47.880 –> 00:48:49.680
But yeah, you’ve heard it from the man now.

00:48:49.680 –> 00:48:54.360
Stevie B, thanks so much for coming on Just quickly, how to.

00:48:54.360 –> 00:48:55.320
How do people get in? Get.

00:48:55.320 –> 00:48:56.750
So if you’re a veteran here on the Gold Coast.

00:48:56.820 –> 00:48:59.660
Yep. I would love it if you get a chance to reach out and have a consult

00:48:59.660 –> 00:49:01.300
with you through a doctor.

00:49:01.460 –> 00:49:03.460
Just quickly talk us through the mechanics of how that happens.

00:49:03.460 –> 00:49:03.980
Yeah, yeah.

00:49:03.980 –> 00:49:08.260
So if you’re basically, if you’re on the Gold Coast, I’m work out of bundle

00:49:08.260 –> 00:49:10.020
and I’m just located in never quit gym.

00:49:10.020 –> 00:49:15.180
But essentially all you’d have to do is go to your GP, get a D904 form

00:49:15.180 –> 00:49:17.380
basically filled out for exercise physiology and myself.

00:49:17.380 –> 00:49:20.540
And if you’ve got questions, you could probably go on to my Instagram or

00:49:20.540 –> 00:49:21.260
Facebook, which is.

00:49:21.260 –> 00:49:23.220
All the links will be down the bottom of this podcast and everything.

00:49:23.220 –> 00:49:27.610
Yep. And then, yeah, once, obviously if you’ve got your, your gold or white

00:49:27.610 –> 00:49:30.250
card, there is little nuances that aren’t too crazy, but if you’re going

00:49:30.250 –> 00:49:34.130
down the steps, definitely reach out and yeah, it’s as easy as that.

00:49:34.130 –> 00:49:36.010
And then come on in and we can sit down, have a chat.

00:49:36.010 –> 00:49:39.890
Fantastic. And like I said, James, thank you so much for joining us, mate.

00:49:39.890 –> 00:49:43.370
I just knew throughout multiple parts of that podcast that there was

00:49:43.370 –> 00:49:45.530
everyone listening going, yep, yeah, that’s me.

00:49:45.530 –> 00:49:47.010
Can relate, can relate, can relate.

00:49:47.010 –> 00:49:48.050
Make yourself accountable.

00:49:48.050 –> 00:49:50.810
Veterans are terrible looking after yourself, but when you’ve got a mate

00:49:50.810 –> 00:49:54.740
that you’ve got to be waiting for, they’ll always look after somebody else.

00:49:54.740 –> 00:49:56.940
So when, yeah, accountability is a big one.

00:49:56.940 –> 00:50:01.060
Yeah. And then, yeah, like I said, just don’t always have to go for the, for

00:50:01.060 –> 00:50:01.780
the surgery Mark.

00:50:01.780 –> 00:50:02.980
Just get yourself out there.

00:50:02.980 –> 00:50:05.140
If, if not for physical, for your headspace.

00:50:05.140 –> 00:50:07.020
And remember, there’s nothing wrong with being strong.

00:50:10.620 –> 00:50:14.140
Please remember, ladies and gents, the whole little ice pick analogy.

00:50:14.380 –> 00:50:17.300
As soon as I heard that for the first time, for all you other bull in the

00:50:17.300 –> 00:50:19.890
china shop blokes out there, rock on.

00:50:20.290 –> 00:50:22.810
Doesn’t need to be that way, but you just got to change your mindset.

00:50:22.810 –> 00:50:23.650
Hope you enjoyed that.

00:50:23.650 –> 00:50:24.410
See you again next time.

00:50:24.410 –> 00:50:24.810
Thank you.

00:50:24.810 –> 00:50:25.250
Cheers.